5 ms·

Ah yes, they were just political activists. The pipe bombs, zip ties, and plans to kidnap politicians are all famous non-violence tactics.

nostromo 6y ago
I oppose all political violence, left and right. The point is we should be consistent in condemning violence, regardless if it's your thugs or your opponent's thugs doing it. A year of media-sanctioned violence in our streets, cheered on by many politicians publicly, paved the way for the shitshow we saw yesterday.
- epakai 6y ago
  Maybe we should consider addressing real issues before they become violent protests. The BLM protests called out real injustices with some being more clear-cut than others. The violence at protests was often used to discredit the movement. This gave conservatives cover to brush aside any demands for change. I understand condemning violence, but if you use the other hand to enforce the issues that lead to protest it seems insincere. I think this is why the Obama admin had some success quelling BLM protests while they became worse again under Trump. I think the general dismissal, and backtracking on Obama's reforms resulted in what we got.[0] Some might even attribute those changes to manufacturing an "other" in order to solidify political support. The protest in the capitol yesterday was based on a fantasy: Trump's refusal to accept his loss, and continued reinforcement of election conspiracies. How can you address what has already been explained, but one side refused to accept? [0] https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/07/police-consent-decrees-trump-administration-oversight https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/07/police-conse...
  - disgrunt 6y ago
    > Maybe we should consider addressing real issues before they become violent protests. > The protest in the capitol yesterday was based on a fantasy: Trump's refusal to accept his loss, and continued reinforcement of election conspiracies. How can you address what has already been explained, but one side refused to accept? You don't see the problem here? Maybe you don't see the election dispute as a "real issue". But approximately 40% of the country does. A significant portion of the country opposes BLM, too, by the way.
    - epakai 6y ago
      I saw it as a real issue. The problem was Trump kept bringing up already discredited theories. Then when disputes came to court they weren't even about those theories. After the third or fourth time this happened I quit following along, and decided the courts would settle it. I'd guess that 40% skipped the little research I did, and has only been following the discredited theory part. Get rid of Trump and we're on the way to reducing the spread of unfounded theories though. I don't know how to fix the rest. Good education maybe, but higher education is looked down on as liberal elites. I'm aware BLM has become a wedge issue. There are issues they took up like civil asset forfeiture, and reforming mandatory minimums that have widespread appeal. These could be implemented if we had both parties willing to work together to find common ground. Instead Trump calls Kaepernick a son of a bitch, and Pence walks out of a game for a stunt. Then a whole movement is demonized so the issues can be dismissed outright.
    - cultus 6y ago
      Yeah, a lot of the country are fascist sympathizers. Get a grip. Your side lost this round, and nobody buys your bs anymore.
- sonotathrowaway 6y ago
  Ah yes, the both-sidesism next. Next you’re going to tell me that since right wing terrorism results in so many more deaths than left-wing terrorism does, that we should discount those murders to make the sides seem “equal” still.
disgrunt 6y ago
Yep. And bricks never hurt nobody.
- cultus 6y ago
  Fuck off, there’s no equivalence you fascist traitor.

nostromo 6y ago

I oppose all political violence, left and right. The point is we should be consistent in condemning violence, regardless if it's your thugs or your opponent's thugs doing it. A year of media-sanctioned violence in our streets, cheered on by many politicians publicly, paved the way for the shitshow we saw yesterday.

epakai 6y ago
Maybe we should consider addressing real issues before they become violent protests. The BLM protests called out real injustices with some being more clear-cut than others. The violence at protests was often used to discredit the movement. This gave conservatives cover to brush aside any demands for change. I understand condemning violence, but if you use the other hand to enforce the issues that lead to protest it seems insincere. I think this is why the Obama admin had some success quelling BLM protests while they became worse again under Trump. I think the general dismissal, and backtracking on Obama's reforms resulted in what we got.[0] Some might even attribute those changes to manufacturing an "other" in order to solidify political support. The protest in the capitol yesterday was based on a fantasy: Trump's refusal to accept his loss, and continued reinforcement of election conspiracies. How can you address what has already been explained, but one side refused to accept? [0] https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/07/police-consent-decrees-trump-administration-oversight https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/07/police-conse...
- disgrunt 6y ago
  > Maybe we should consider addressing real issues before they become violent protests. > The protest in the capitol yesterday was based on a fantasy: Trump's refusal to accept his loss, and continued reinforcement of election conspiracies. How can you address what has already been explained, but one side refused to accept? You don't see the problem here? Maybe you don't see the election dispute as a "real issue". But approximately 40% of the country does. A significant portion of the country opposes BLM, too, by the way.
  - epakai 6y ago
    I saw it as a real issue. The problem was Trump kept bringing up already discredited theories. Then when disputes came to court they weren't even about those theories. After the third or fourth time this happened I quit following along, and decided the courts would settle it. I'd guess that 40% skipped the little research I did, and has only been following the discredited theory part. Get rid of Trump and we're on the way to reducing the spread of unfounded theories though. I don't know how to fix the rest. Good education maybe, but higher education is looked down on as liberal elites. I'm aware BLM has become a wedge issue. There are issues they took up like civil asset forfeiture, and reforming mandatory minimums that have widespread appeal. These could be implemented if we had both parties willing to work together to find common ground. Instead Trump calls Kaepernick a son of a bitch, and Pence walks out of a game for a stunt. Then a whole movement is demonized so the issues can be dismissed outright.
  - cultus 6y ago
    Yeah, a lot of the country are fascist sympathizers. Get a grip. Your side lost this round, and nobody buys your bs anymore.
sonotathrowaway 6y ago
Ah yes, the both-sidesism next. Next you’re going to tell me that since right wing terrorism results in so many more deaths than left-wing terrorism does, that we should discount those murders to make the sides seem “equal” still.

disgrunt 6y ago

Yep. And bricks never hurt nobody.

cultus 6y ago
Fuck off, there’s no equivalence you fascist traitor.