4 ms·

The Metropolitan Police are good at kettling; see, for example, the Swann Street Siege during protests this summer. The objective was to arrest every protestor

by evanb 6y ago

The Metropolitan Police are good at kettling; see, for example, the Swann Street Siege during protests this summer. The objective was to arrest every protestor. That so many people just walked away is mind boggling.

nerdponx 6y ago
Again, glaring evidence that this was more or less allowed to happen, even if police officers did not literally open the gates.
- jonnycomputer 6y ago
  Not glaring evidence that it was allowed to happen. Just evidence that they did not correctly anticipate the number of personnel they'd need.
  - Pfhreak 6y ago
    There are videos showing cops waving people in, cops taking selfies with people inside the Capitol, cops gingerly walking hand in hand with insurrectionists. Underestimating the police necessary is a form of allowing this to happen. Yeah, maybe there were individuals holding the line, but the police definitely, irrefutably allowed this to happen.
    - jonnycomputer 6y ago
      About those selfies. The only ones I've seen are those where the Trump supporters were holding the cameras. Have you seen any where the police were taking shots of themselves with the protesters? A police officer standing passively by while someone takes as shot that includes them seems less ... outrageous.
      - Pfhreak 6y ago
        What's the demeanor of the cops in question? https://twitter.com/bubbaprog/status/1346920198461419520 https://twitter.com/bubbaprog/status/1346920198461419520 is not someone who is just idly standing by -- they are participating, even if the insurrectionist is holding the camera.
        jonnycomputer 6y ago
        Yeah, this is the video everyone shows. I don't know what the cop's demeanor is. He's wearing a mask. As a practical matter, what should the police officer have done in this situation, outnumbered in a potentially hostile crowd? I'm agnostic on what was actually going on here. I feel cautious about how narrative quickly outpaces the evidence to support it. And I'm honestly not so concerned here about what individual cops do, but whether there was a coordinated conspiracy to insurrection. A coup. Here is what I believe. This is really very Trump. He riles up the crowd, says he'll go lead them up to the steps of the Capitol, but then gets in his limo and goes to the White House instead. Perhaps he gets the assistance of the capitol police, but that is not established. But he is slow or refuses to provide them National Guard backup (apparently it was Pence who got it done, going around Trump). All of this is to get a coup with plausible deniability. I might be wrong.
        mcbits 6y ago
        If last summer is the standard to live up to, he should have been maiming as many random people as possible, with special emphasis on the photographers and any children that might unfortunately be present.
  - nerdponx 6y ago
    Just look at how any of the 2020 BLM protests were handled, if you want to see what urban police forces in the USA are capable of on short notice.
pvarangot 6y ago
It's even more mind boggling when this protesters were inside a building that the secret service has multiple ways to completely lock down, and the police had the full support of the national guard to for example establish a second secure perimeter. They basically could have pointed two assault rifles at each protester while having a third police office per protester telling them to identify themselves. This was the chance for the government to show a response of hollywoodesque proportions and they didn't. This makes the US government look like a joke, it's not a functional democracy. If the government actually relied of this nut-jobs to function, as in like if Trump was actually throwing a coup, it's understandable to act in this way. But the fact that no one on the Metro decided to go all in against this clowns is something that I can't understand. The crazy progressives that think that Trump is literally the reincarnation of Hitler are saying that it's because they are white and this is Trump's paramilitary. I thought that they were crazy living in their own reality but after seeing how they got away with storming the Capitol I'm starting to think that the woke conspiracy theories are truer than I thought.
- mumblemumble 6y ago
  https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-polices-tepid-response-to-the-capitol-breach-wasnt-an-aberration/ https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-polices-tepid-respo...
  - pvarangot 6y ago
    Yeah I know, but this is not just a protest. If I were a right-wing activist I would already be planning a BBQ on the Rose Garden for Trump's last day on the White House.
    - Delmania 6y ago
      They already are. Also, Trump refused to send in the National Guard claiming “his people” were peaceful and that no one was paying attention to the rioters. You may want to do some digging. All of those woke conspiracy theories being spread by crazy progressives like myself usually come from Trump or QAnon supporters directly.
mumblemumble 6y ago
The Metropolitan Police don't have jurisdiction on Capitol grounds. So perhaps they weren't allowed to do anything without the consent of the Capitol Police.
- pvarangot 6y ago
  The way that works with national building is always that they establish a perimeter outside the building and act with that perimeter as a base of operation or whatever is their name for that. A lot of national monuments, reserve areas, national parks, etc... have the same issue where they have their smaller police that never does anything and only patrols inside. If there's evidence that you broke into a building anywhere in Washington, like, your face or outfit matching 100% the one of someone that was seen on national TV desecrating the building, the Metro police has cause to arrest you anywhere in Washington. There's so much precedent to this it's completely mind-blowing they didn't do anything. If it was so easy to get away with storming the Capitol we would already have a hippie commune in there. The Capitol Police is a joke.
- evanb 6y ago
  Agreed, but they do have jurisdiction on land completely surrounding the Capitol complex. Moreover, these police forces practice and work together.

by evanb 6y ago

nerdponx 6y ago

Again, glaring evidence that this was more or less allowed to happen, even if police officers did not literally open the gates.

jonnycomputer 6y ago
Not glaring evidence that it was allowed to happen. Just evidence that they did not correctly anticipate the number of personnel they'd need.
- Pfhreak 6y ago
  There are videos showing cops waving people in, cops taking selfies with people inside the Capitol, cops gingerly walking hand in hand with insurrectionists. Underestimating the police necessary is a form of allowing this to happen. Yeah, maybe there were individuals holding the line, but the police definitely, irrefutably allowed this to happen.
  - jonnycomputer 6y ago
    About those selfies. The only ones I've seen are those where the Trump supporters were holding the cameras. Have you seen any where the police were taking shots of themselves with the protesters? A police officer standing passively by while someone takes as shot that includes them seems less ... outrageous.
    - Pfhreak 6y ago
      What's the demeanor of the cops in question? https://twitter.com/bubbaprog/status/1346920198461419520 https://twitter.com/bubbaprog/status/1346920198461419520 is not someone who is just idly standing by -- they are participating, even if the insurrectionist is holding the camera.
      - jonnycomputer 6y ago
        Yeah, this is the video everyone shows. I don't know what the cop's demeanor is. He's wearing a mask. As a practical matter, what should the police officer have done in this situation, outnumbered in a potentially hostile crowd? I'm agnostic on what was actually going on here. I feel cautious about how narrative quickly outpaces the evidence to support it. And I'm honestly not so concerned here about what individual cops do, but whether there was a coordinated conspiracy to insurrection. A coup. Here is what I believe. This is really very Trump. He riles up the crowd, says he'll go lead them up to the steps of the Capitol, but then gets in his limo and goes to the White House instead. Perhaps he gets the assistance of the capitol police, but that is not established. But he is slow or refuses to provide them National Guard backup (apparently it was Pence who got it done, going around Trump). All of this is to get a coup with plausible deniability. I might be wrong.
        mcbits 6y ago
        If last summer is the standard to live up to, he should have been maiming as many random people as possible, with special emphasis on the photographers and any children that might unfortunately be present.
- nerdponx 6y ago
  Just look at how any of the 2020 BLM protests were handled, if you want to see what urban police forces in the USA are capable of on short notice.

pvarangot 6y ago

It's even more mind boggling when this protesters were inside a building that the secret service has multiple ways to completely lock down, and the police had the full support of the national guard to for example establish a second secure perimeter. They basically could have pointed two assault rifles at each protester while having a third police office per protester telling them to identify themselves. This was the chance for the government to show a response of hollywoodesque proportions and they didn't. This makes the US government look like a joke, it's not a functional democracy. If the government actually relied of this nut-jobs to function, as in like if Trump was actually throwing a coup, it's understandable to act in this way. But the fact that no one on the Metro decided to go all in against this clowns is something that I can't understand. The crazy progressives that think that Trump is literally the reincarnation of Hitler are saying that it's because they are white and this is Trump's paramilitary. I thought that they were crazy living in their own reality but after seeing how they got away with storming the Capitol I'm starting to think that the woke conspiracy theories are truer than I thought.

mumblemumble 6y ago
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-polices-tepid-response-to-the-capitol-breach-wasnt-an-aberration/ https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-polices-tepid-respo...
- pvarangot 6y ago
  Yeah I know, but this is not just a protest. If I were a right-wing activist I would already be planning a BBQ on the Rose Garden for Trump's last day on the White House.
  - Delmania 6y ago
    They already are. Also, Trump refused to send in the National Guard claiming “his people” were peaceful and that no one was paying attention to the rioters. You may want to do some digging. All of those woke conspiracy theories being spread by crazy progressives like myself usually come from Trump or QAnon supporters directly.

mumblemumble 6y ago

The Metropolitan Police don't have jurisdiction on Capitol grounds. So perhaps they weren't allowed to do anything without the consent of the Capitol Police.

pvarangot 6y ago
The way that works with national building is always that they establish a perimeter outside the building and act with that perimeter as a base of operation or whatever is their name for that. A lot of national monuments, reserve areas, national parks, etc... have the same issue where they have their smaller police that never does anything and only patrols inside. If there's evidence that you broke into a building anywhere in Washington, like, your face or outfit matching 100% the one of someone that was seen on national TV desecrating the building, the Metro police has cause to arrest you anywhere in Washington. There's so much precedent to this it's completely mind-blowing they didn't do anything. If it was so easy to get away with storming the Capitol we would already have a hippie commune in there. The Capitol Police is a joke.
evanb 6y ago
Agreed, but they do have jurisdiction on land completely surrounding the Capitol complex. Moreover, these police forces practice and work together.