4 ms·

The capitol police shot one of them in the head, teargassed and wrestled with the others, so they have exactly every reason to believe otherwise. But sure, som

The capitol police shot one of them in the head, teargassed and wrestled with the others, so they have exactly every reason to believe otherwise. But sure, some short video of cops removing a 3' tall baby gate, circulating on social media without context, makes a great basis for suggesting that the police and these hooligans were collaborating. Edit: this sibling comment has a better angle on the barricades, https://mobile.twitter.com/justinjm1/status/1347174957613199360 https://mobile.twitter.com/justinjm1/status/1347174957613199...

fencepost 6y ago
The selfie pic didn't help.
- jessedhillon 6y ago
  I know you're being intentionally obtuse, as is the fashion right now, but I'm going to give a straight response to this for anyone genuinely engaging. We don't know what went through that officer's mind. If you're standing watch and someone stands next to you and clicks a photo, is there anything you can and should do? Should you, as the officer, wrestle him to the ground, knowing there's a riotous mob right behind him? But even if it's the case that the officer enthusiastically posed for the photo, it's probably best not to understand police like a monolithic entity operating perfect information, but rather as a group of heterogeneous actors working in a fog that limits their awareness. Otherwise, if you extend the "one officer did X therefore the motives of all officers are established" logic you quickly get really stupid contradictions. Over the summer, I saw several photos of officers kneeling in solidarity with BLM protesters -- I guess that means all police everywhere support the aims of the BLM movement now? Probably not, because police aren't a monolith, and subsequent police actions contradict that solidarity. Likewise, police teargassing, manhandling, and shooting these other protesters also paints a more complex landscape than "one officer took a selfie, therefore they're all collaborating."
  - fencepost 6y ago
    I mostly kept it brief because I was browsing on a phone. I'd have no concerns had that selfie pic been taken outside at the original rally, but once that group had broken into the Capitol building everyone there was present illegally. That is not the time to pose for pictures, even if the situation or orders are such that you're not able to make arrests or expel them.
    - jessedhillon 6y ago
      It's a shame these officers didn't go to a police academy as fine as the one you attended.
nopeNopeNooope 6y ago
I think it was more all those previous times when the police and these hooligans were collaborating. Which have also been well documented on social media, by the folks in question.
ehsankia 6y ago
Here's the video of right before the girl got shot [0], you can see a dozen riot police behind doing absolutely nothing as the mob smashes the windows and doors. I'm not claiming they were helping, but they also were nowhere as brutal and aggressive than the riot police we saw in the summer. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PAVTZIM5ks https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PAVTZIM5ks
- jessedhillon 6y ago
  I'm not aware of any BLM protesters being shot by police during the summer protests, so right off the bat, this is a really weird comment you've written. Shooting a protester in the head is already worse treatment, isn't it?
  - ehsankia 6y ago
    I'm also not aware of any BLM protester smashing through a barricade while there were a handful of armed guard on the other side repeatedly warning them to back off or they would be shot, but still jumping through despite the warnings [0]. During the protests, the police had no issue shoving people to the ground [1], but at the capitol it looked very different [2]. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PAVTZIM5ks https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PAVTZIM5ks [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bX7j3xUB3A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bX7j3xUB3A [2] https://twitter.com/alafairburke/status/1346940066812276738 https://twitter.com/alafairburke/status/1346940066812276738
    - stale2002 6y ago
      There were quite a few anarchist rioters who have broke into and destroyed various government buildings actually. I believe there was a situation in Seattle, for example, where they broke into and destroyed a police station.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
  - 6y ago
sudosysgen 6y ago
I'm not sure the one who shot is from the same organization. He was wearing very different gear, and the rest of the police force was not cooperating with him.
- p_l 6y ago
  AFAIK the shooter was Secret Service agent.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - the_only_law 6y ago
    This claims it was capital police https://twitter.com/wsvn/status/1347033011880140801?s=21 https://twitter.com/wsvn/status/1347033011880140801?s=21
s1artibartfast 6y ago
The thing about the "incriminating" gate videos that gets me is that there are obviously already civilians behind the barricade and officers.
- akiselev 6y ago
  It's elementary crowd control. When there's too many people to manage, you block the largest cohesive groups from coalescing any further and ignore small pockets instead of letting the big groups into the zone you're trying to protect. Seems like Capitol police should have covered that in their first day of training.
  - s1artibartfast 6y ago
    Are you professional trained in crowd control, or just an armchair speculator like me? I imagine that at some point, they are trained to fall back if at risk of being surrounded. Either way, my point is that it is that there isn’t evidence to support conspiracy theories that the capitol police were somehow in on it, which are circulating.

fencepost 6y ago

The selfie pic didn't help.

jessedhillon 6y ago
I know you're being intentionally obtuse, as is the fashion right now, but I'm going to give a straight response to this for anyone genuinely engaging. We don't know what went through that officer's mind. If you're standing watch and someone stands next to you and clicks a photo, is there anything you can and should do? Should you, as the officer, wrestle him to the ground, knowing there's a riotous mob right behind him? But even if it's the case that the officer enthusiastically posed for the photo, it's probably best not to understand police like a monolithic entity operating perfect information, but rather as a group of heterogeneous actors working in a fog that limits their awareness. Otherwise, if you extend the "one officer did X therefore the motives of all officers are established" logic you quickly get really stupid contradictions. Over the summer, I saw several photos of officers kneeling in solidarity with BLM protesters -- I guess that means all police everywhere support the aims of the BLM movement now? Probably not, because police aren't a monolith, and subsequent police actions contradict that solidarity. Likewise, police teargassing, manhandling, and shooting these other protesters also paints a more complex landscape than "one officer took a selfie, therefore they're all collaborating."
- fencepost 6y ago
  I mostly kept it brief because I was browsing on a phone. I'd have no concerns had that selfie pic been taken outside at the original rally, but once that group had broken into the Capitol building everyone there was present illegally. That is not the time to pose for pictures, even if the situation or orders are such that you're not able to make arrests or expel them.
  - jessedhillon 6y ago
    It's a shame these officers didn't go to a police academy as fine as the one you attended.

nopeNopeNooope 6y ago

I think it was more all those previous times when the police and these hooligans were collaborating. Which have also been well documented on social media, by the folks in question.

ehsankia 6y ago

Here's the video of right before the girl got shot [0], you can see a dozen riot police behind doing absolutely nothing as the mob smashes the windows and doors. I'm not claiming they were helping, but they also were nowhere as brutal and aggressive than the riot police we saw in the summer. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PAVTZIM5ks https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PAVTZIM5ks

jessedhillon 6y ago
I'm not aware of any BLM protesters being shot by police during the summer protests, so right off the bat, this is a really weird comment you've written. Shooting a protester in the head is already worse treatment, isn't it?
- ehsankia 6y ago
  I'm also not aware of any BLM protester smashing through a barricade while there were a handful of armed guard on the other side repeatedly warning them to back off or they would be shot, but still jumping through despite the warnings [0]. During the protests, the police had no issue shoving people to the ground [1], but at the capitol it looked very different [2]. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PAVTZIM5ks https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PAVTZIM5ks [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bX7j3xUB3A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bX7j3xUB3A [2] https://twitter.com/alafairburke/status/1346940066812276738 https://twitter.com/alafairburke/status/1346940066812276738
  - stale2002 6y ago
    There were quite a few anarchist rioters who have broke into and destroyed various government buildings actually. I believe there was a situation in Seattle, for example, where they broke into and destroyed a police station.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
- 6y ago

sudosysgen 6y ago

I'm not sure the one who shot is from the same organization. He was wearing very different gear, and the rest of the police force was not cooperating with him.

p_l 6y ago
AFAIK the shooter was Secret Service agent.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- the_only_law 6y ago
  This claims it was capital police https://twitter.com/wsvn/status/1347033011880140801?s=21 https://twitter.com/wsvn/status/1347033011880140801?s=21

s1artibartfast 6y ago

The thing about the "incriminating" gate videos that gets me is that there are obviously already civilians behind the barricade and officers.

akiselev 6y ago
It's elementary crowd control. When there's too many people to manage, you block the largest cohesive groups from coalescing any further and ignore small pockets instead of letting the big groups into the zone you're trying to protect. Seems like Capitol police should have covered that in their first day of training.
- s1artibartfast 6y ago
  Are you professional trained in crowd control, or just an armchair speculator like me? I imagine that at some point, they are trained to fall back if at risk of being surrounded. Either way, my point is that it is that there isn’t evidence to support conspiracy theories that the capitol police were somehow in on it, which are circulating.