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Some days I dream of a distant future in which an average being (human or otherwise) comes in contact with a hard disk drive containing humanity's knowledge. I
by Ductapemaster 6y ago
Some days I dream of a distant future in which an average being (human or otherwise) comes in contact with a hard disk drive containing humanity's knowledge. I think about the vast number of layers that have been combined to create such a marvel of technology, simply to store data in an efficient way. Sure, you might be able to figure out the physics of magnetic storage, or even the basic electronics, but what about the motor controller? The architecture and firmware on the storage controller? The electrical interfaces to the storage controller?
Let's assume you even get that far.
What about the physical layout of data on the drive? The filesystem? The file formats?
That's not even all of it, and there is just so, so much that would be incomprehensible to a single individual, however intelligent.
It's truly incredible how we've been able to combine years and years of knowledge into something most humans would just take for granted.
“Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.” -Arthur C. Clarke
- offtop5 6y agoWould a hard drive even last that long. I hope that we have something, something like the seed bank which saves the most important data of the past. Would kind of suck if no one had a SATA in 500 years though
- tyingq 6y agoLaser engraving tiny text on a hard surface maybe? https://nanorosetta.com/ https://nanorosetta.com/
- schoen 6y agoA cool project that responds to or takes account of this (trying to make a storage artifact that someone plausibly could learn to use without most of our technological knowledge) is https://rosettaproject.org/ https://rosettaproject.org/. It's a somewhat high-density archival storage medium that tries to give a clear hint of what it contains and how to read it, just requiring optical magnification. Of course, that means its overall capacity is many orders of magnitude less than the hard drive you describe.
- smarx007 6y agoOff-topic question: has anyone used M-Disk BD disks to make long-term backups? I got recently interested in it after reading that US Navy tested it in Arizona and found it to be the only medium without read errors after the tests. But that was apparently more than 5 years ago and I stopped hearing about disk drives around then. Is it an unreasonable idea to buy a USB writer drive and give it a go?
- dmitrygr 6y agoI use them. Burn each copy twice. Par2 files on separate disks. So far no read errors (verified yearly)
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- Wowfunhappy 6y agoI really want to. I just wish that the BDXL discs were, like, half as expensive as they are. It's not M-Discs fault of course, I just have too much data...
- namibj 6y agoWell, even normal BD is very resilient, apart from delamination. But that's a gradual problem you can preempt with multiple parity discs for each bundle of data discs, along with periodic checking of the discs (delamination is optically quite obvious).
- jti107 6y agoyes! i've used Verbatim BDXL M-Disc 100 GB discs for backup. i just store the data in a Vercacrypt container for security. there are some low quality drives and discs out there so you need to do your research but I've been using it for couple of months and they've worked great. you can get 5 discs for $60 on amazon.
- digikata 6y agoI've thought about the same thing, but I suspect the main hurdle to overcome would be recognizing it as a data storage device in the first place. If one had an inkling of that use, then some future archeologist wouldn't need to know much about the electronics or controller. They might image the magnetic fields of the platters at 1000x the resolution and sensitivity of the drives original read/write electronics, then treat it like past archeologists might have treated a tablet with cuneiform.
- AstralStorm 6y agoAt that point, you might record storage media and technology information at lower resolution to make it easy to read and easily identifiable. Like a text on how this thing works engraved on it, with a magnifying glass. We partially do that on product labels that say you should open it only in high vacuum or laminar chamber. (Simplified to "do not open" for normal people.)
- Someone 6y agoThe LongNow foundation has thought about that, too. They start of with “how would people be able to understand that text?”. See https://blog.longnow.org/02012/10/12/decoding-long-term-data-storage/ https://blog.longnow.org/02012/10/12/decoding-long-term-data.... I remember reading about a project that started with instructions on how to build a stage 1 instrument (a microscope, IIRC) that allows you to read the instructions to build a stage 2 instrument that allows you to read the instructions to build a stage 3 instrument, etc. but cannot find it.
- selfhoster11 6y agoIs this the one you are referring to? https://rosettaproject.org/disk/concept/ https://rosettaproject.org/disk/concept/
- Someone 6y agoNo. That doesn’t describe technology needed to read it, and doesn’t require different tech (only better and better eyes). There was a way more convoluted one. Maybe it was a SF story.
- zelon88 6y agoThis is a fascinating thought experiment. I think equally as interesting an experiment would be to imagine if an alien race found this drive, instead of a future human. I imagine, to them, it would be like a modern day auto mechanic admiring all of the analog wonders of an antique car from the 1950's. Even though they may have no experience with the technology they are probably able to recognize the roots of the technology and perhaps are able to quickly deduce how it works with simple observation.
- richardw 6y agoI’ve wondered how extremely bright ancestors figured out the basics. Carrying water. The benefits of cooking food. How rocks or logs rolling could become a wheel. How you actually kill a large animal the first time. How to try berries in a new area. How did they figure bread out?
- adrianN 6y agoBread is actually not that difficult to figure out. Grains are easier to digest if you grind them up. Somebody didn't want to use their teeth to do so and invented a form of dough. Yeasts are everywhere, so it's just a matter of bringing the dough sufficiently close to your fire to get something that resembles proto-bread.
- richardw 6y agoSure but each bit isn’t obvious before you’ve seen it. Lots of people you know would just chew the grains after boiling because that’s what we’ve always done. Every so often someone stops and thinks about trying to crush it. How many remote tribes have bread? Obviously generally requires precursors like farming.
- asiando 6y agoYou just oversimplified picking grains at the right time, grinding them to a powder, mixing it raw with water, but not too much, adding a third weird ingredient, and cooking it. At every stage you have a product that’s not really edible. Someone had to experiment.
- Razengan 6y ago> Some days I dream of a distant future in which an average being (human or otherwise) comes in contact with [today's technology]. > “Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.” -Arthur C. Clarke That is precisely the premise of the "science & sorcery" genre or hyper-sci-fi as I like to call it, where relatively primitive people regularly stumble upon ancient technology that they can't hope to comprehend but use it for its incidental effects. For example a smartphone may be good as a compact light source but not much else, or a hard drive for its shiny sharp discs and magnets. See the Numenera RPG, set a billion (!) years into Earth's future after several civilizations have risen and collapsed: http://numenera.com http://numenera.com
- andrewnicolalde 6y agoI desperately want there to be a series of books written in this universe.
- Razengan 6y agoThere’s a CRPG called Tides of Numenera and some tabletop adventures of course.
- wizardforhire 6y agoIve had this idea kicking around for over a decade to make ceramic or granite slabs of sufficient dimensions as demonstrated by artifacts found from archeological digs so as to withstand elements and time and etch the surfaces of sufficient depth so as to maintain their features and then have an analog projection apparatus that uses sunlight so as to magnify the feature, also constructed of similar means. Design the components all open source buy plots in cemeteries around the world and any where else that wont be subducted via techtonics in any time soon and just bury wikipedia or whatever else. The Long now meets that scene in the time machine basically. All in the hopes of confronting this exact scenario you’ve outlined.
- Someone 6y agoThe Long Now foundation isn’t only building a clock. It also is thinking about long-term conservation of data. See https://rosettaproject.org/ https://rosettaproject.org/)
- Ductapemaster 6y agoReading about their clock and my subsequent research into how one would "communicate" through design that a particular site (say, nuclear waste dump) was harmful and not something to be messed with or explored was the original impetus for this thought experiment. It's fun to dream!
- atoav 6y agoAdd video codecs (and the operating systems they run on) on top and you know why the library of congress decided lasering movies onto film (3 black and white rolls, one for each color channel) is the best storage format for something as simple as moving images and sound.