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A while ago, I had a landlord who withdrew rent directly from my bank account[1] and who kept charging me rent after I had left. They also refused to return the

A while ago, I had a landlord who withdrew rent directly from my bank account[1] and who kept charging me rent after I had left. They also refused to return the money to me and insisted I file an ACH dispute through my bank, Simple. I was responsible for rent for me and my roomate, so being double charged rent for a month meant I was suddenly short two peoples' worth of rent. Simple was super, super good about the whole thing. They gave me an interest-free loan for the whole amount and told me that if the dispute was successful (which it was), I'd just get to keep the loan. They also put an ACH block[2] on my account, and generally were super responsive in support. Simple wasn't great for a lot of stuff you could expect from normal banks, like writing checks (for a while, you couldn't get a checkbook from them), cashier's checks, and money orders, but for everything else, they worked really well. I'm kinda sad to see them go. [1]: I now know this is a bad idea. Always use a 3rd party or pay manually! [2]: ACH blocks are weak, but they're the only sort of protection against malicious actors like this. They prevent a specific amount of money from being withdrawn from a specific party, but there's no way to, say, block all withdrawal attempts from a party.

rige 6y ago
On your note [1] - could you explain more about using a 3rd party? I currently use auto-withdrawals, but it sounds like I should switch before I get in a bad situation like you mentioned.
- bichiliad 6y ago
  As long as your landlord doesn't have your literal bank numbers, you are probably ok. If anyone has your bank numbers, they can initiate ACH withdrawals from your account, which is something I didn't know. There are protections on ACH transfers, which is why you can dispute things, but it also means a lot of your money could be in limbo for a long period of time, which is scary. As for 3rd parties, most landlords I've had since use services like ClickPay and AppFolio (there are probably dozens, but those are two I've had the option of using with past landlords). They have automatic payment options, but they won't charge payments without your approval.
cactus2093 6y ago
> Always use a 3rd party or pay manually Not sure what you mean by a 3rd party, but just a reminder that every check you spend contains all the info anybody needs to pull out arbitrary amounts of money from your account over ACH in the future. So if you've ever "payed manually" with a check, even if you've never set up automatic rent payments, your landlord could still do the same thing if they wanted to. I find it infuriating that no financial regulators or banks have ever bothered to address this. Mailing a check is basically equivalent to sending your login information over plain http to a site that doesn't even hash passwords in their database. And the stakes are even higher than they are just about any online account you might have. But we're basically forced to do it all the time.
- CGamesPlay 6y ago
  > So if you've ever "payed manually" with a check, even if you've never set up automatic rent payments, your landlord could still do the same thing if they wanted to. Well, that would be committing wire fraud. If I agree to automatic payments at least the landlord has an excuse that I had consented to such recurring payments.

rige 6y ago

On your note [1] - could you explain more about using a 3rd party? I currently use auto-withdrawals, but it sounds like I should switch before I get in a bad situation like you mentioned.

bichiliad 6y ago
As long as your landlord doesn't have your literal bank numbers, you are probably ok. If anyone has your bank numbers, they can initiate ACH withdrawals from your account, which is something I didn't know. There are protections on ACH transfers, which is why you can dispute things, but it also means a lot of your money could be in limbo for a long period of time, which is scary. As for 3rd parties, most landlords I've had since use services like ClickPay and AppFolio (there are probably dozens, but those are two I've had the option of using with past landlords). They have automatic payment options, but they won't charge payments without your approval.

cactus2093 6y ago

> Always use a 3rd party or pay manually Not sure what you mean by a 3rd party, but just a reminder that every check you spend contains all the info anybody needs to pull out arbitrary amounts of money from your account over ACH in the future. So if you've ever "payed manually" with a check, even if you've never set up automatic rent payments, your landlord could still do the same thing if they wanted to. I find it infuriating that no financial regulators or banks have ever bothered to address this. Mailing a check is basically equivalent to sending your login information over plain http to a site that doesn't even hash passwords in their database. And the stakes are even higher than they are just about any online account you might have. But we're basically forced to do it all the time.

CGamesPlay 6y ago
> So if you've ever "payed manually" with a check, even if you've never set up automatic rent payments, your landlord could still do the same thing if they wanted to. Well, that would be committing wire fraud. If I agree to automatic payments at least the landlord has an excuse that I had consented to such recurring payments.