4 ms·

How would you suspend a company? It would have to close all offices/manufacturing sites and fire all employees. Suppliers and customers would have to be compe

How would you suspend a company? It would have to close all offices/manufacturing sites and fire all employees. Suppliers and customers would have to be compensated, which would also probably result in lots of lawsuits. It would mean bankruptcy for most companies out there. Suspending is more or less equivalent to just shutting it down. But yeah, a 2.5 billion fine is not much more than a slap on the wrist for a company with a revenue of 76 billion (2019).

anonymousab 6y ago
>It would mean bankruptcy for most companies out there. So not much different than when a person is imprisoned. Good luck not getting fired and having debts rack up. Such an existential threat seems like a very good way of scaring corporations into compliance (well, among other things).
- _underfl0w_ 6y ago
  This was my thinking exactly. The point of establishing a formal punishment for criminal business activity is not to set up one that business aren't terrified of. Quite the opposite - it needs to be a very real, very scary source of motivation to do the right thing (since morality alone clearly isn't sufficient)
- the_duke 6y ago
  But a companies "imprisonment" affects many more people. Employees out of a job , suppliers losing contracts, customers never getting what they might have already paid for, creditors losing the debt, share holders lose all their investment. Especially with a huge corporation like Boeing with 160k employees and billions flowing in and out, the effect would be huge. Like I said, I agree there needs to be some way to punish, but just shutting it down would punish a lot of parties that aren't not responsible.
  - Yoofie 6y ago
    I'm not the OP but ... > Employees out of a job , suppliers losing contracts, customers never getting what they might have already paid for, creditors losing the debt, share holders lose all their investment. This is what bankruptcy proceedings are for. A similar procedure can be made up for a "corporate death penalty". >Especially with a huge corporation like Boeing with 160k employees and billions flowing in and out, the effect would be huge. If the government was doing its job, corporations of this size should not even be allowed to exist for precisely the reasons you mention. But since anything goes in corporate America, here we are. > Like I said, I agree there needs to be some way to punish, but just shutting it down would punish a lot of parties that aren't not responsible. I would argue that people being indirectly hurt would be a good motivator (or reminder) for people being more picky who they do business with. If you don't learn your lesson the first time, then being burned multiple times will (hopefully) get the message across.
dhritzkiv 6y ago
Perhaps transferring custody/ownership to the state?
- throwaway201103 6y ago
  Which state officials would be competent to run a major avaition, defense, and aerospace company? Perhaps forcing a new exectutive staff and/or board in some way, but don't see a literal state takeover ending well. Oversight and managment/operations need to be separate. This mess happened partly because Boeing was given too much leeway in performing their own oversight.
- Yoofie 6y ago
  A better option would be just to break up the company. Companies of this size probably should not be allowed to exist in the first place.
deleted 6y ago
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cameldrv 6y ago
When a person is jailed it usually means they default on their lease, which may result in a lawsuit. They lose their job, sometimes their marriage. They can't see their children. When they come out, they often are left with no possessions and dim job prospects. If we create limited liability entities that can be criminally charged, they should be treated analogously to a person, or their corporate officers or owners should stand in the company's stead. Right now, corporations have an unprecedented ability to simply pay a large fine for a murder conviction. That is not an option for an individual convicted of murder.

anonymousab 6y ago

>It would mean bankruptcy for most companies out there. So not much different than when a person is imprisoned. Good luck not getting fired and having debts rack up. Such an existential threat seems like a very good way of scaring corporations into compliance (well, among other things).

_underfl0w_ 6y ago
This was my thinking exactly. The point of establishing a formal punishment for criminal business activity is not to set up one that business aren't terrified of. Quite the opposite - it needs to be a very real, very scary source of motivation to do the right thing (since morality alone clearly isn't sufficient)
the_duke 6y ago
But a companies "imprisonment" affects many more people. Employees out of a job , suppliers losing contracts, customers never getting what they might have already paid for, creditors losing the debt, share holders lose all their investment. Especially with a huge corporation like Boeing with 160k employees and billions flowing in and out, the effect would be huge. Like I said, I agree there needs to be some way to punish, but just shutting it down would punish a lot of parties that aren't not responsible.
- Yoofie 6y ago
  I'm not the OP but ... > Employees out of a job , suppliers losing contracts, customers never getting what they might have already paid for, creditors losing the debt, share holders lose all their investment. This is what bankruptcy proceedings are for. A similar procedure can be made up for a "corporate death penalty". >Especially with a huge corporation like Boeing with 160k employees and billions flowing in and out, the effect would be huge. If the government was doing its job, corporations of this size should not even be allowed to exist for precisely the reasons you mention. But since anything goes in corporate America, here we are. > Like I said, I agree there needs to be some way to punish, but just shutting it down would punish a lot of parties that aren't not responsible. I would argue that people being indirectly hurt would be a good motivator (or reminder) for people being more picky who they do business with. If you don't learn your lesson the first time, then being burned multiple times will (hopefully) get the message across.

dhritzkiv 6y ago

Perhaps transferring custody/ownership to the state?

throwaway201103 6y ago
Which state officials would be competent to run a major avaition, defense, and aerospace company? Perhaps forcing a new exectutive staff and/or board in some way, but don't see a literal state takeover ending well. Oversight and managment/operations need to be separate. This mess happened partly because Boeing was given too much leeway in performing their own oversight.
Yoofie 6y ago
A better option would be just to break up the company. Companies of this size probably should not be allowed to exist in the first place.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

cameldrv 6y ago

When a person is jailed it usually means they default on their lease, which may result in a lawsuit. They lose their job, sometimes their marriage. They can't see their children. When they come out, they often are left with no possessions and dim job prospects. If we create limited liability entities that can be criminally charged, they should be treated analogously to a person, or their corporate officers or owners should stand in the company's stead. Right now, corporations have an unprecedented ability to simply pay a large fine for a murder conviction. That is not an option for an individual convicted of murder.