5 ms·

A noninflammatory mRNA vaccine for treatment of autoimmune encephalomyelitis

88 points by lawrenceyan 6y ago

DubiousPusher 6y ago
Were it to work in humans, does anyone know if there is any reason such an approach couldn't be extended to other autoimmune disorders which attack the various other tissues of the body?
- _Microft 6y ago
  I think this is what they are eventually aiming for. Half of the authors is affiliated with BioNTech of BioNTech/Pfizer-mRNA-vaccine-fame by the way.
  - weaksauce 6y ago
    that's why i've been saying that the mRNA vaccine delivery method could be the next paradigm shift... like antibiotics were.
    - RobertoG 6y ago
      I think that this could be thought as part of a more general revolution: the know-how to program the immune system. This would include things like T-Cells therapy for cancer (1) (1) - https://science.sciencemag.org/content/371/6525/145 https://science.sciencemag.org/content/371/6525/145
    - aaomidi 6y ago
      I don't know why you're being down voted. mRNA and tcell programming is the future of medicine. We may literally not have to worry about pathogen borne, auto immune, or cancer ever again...
  - jjcon 6y ago
    When people think vaccine they think, ‘only effective if taken beforehand’. Is that the case for mRNA vaccines?
    - nabla9 6y ago
      Vaccine implies acquired immunity. Exactly same mRNA tech can potentially be used to treat cancer, cardiovascular or metabolic diseases, only the messenger RNA changes. It's probably called mRNA drug instead of mRNA vaccine even if the process is the same. mRNA is tech that BioNTech is developing is completely digital. Once you have the RNA structure in the computer, you can just "print out" drug/vaccine using the same process without changing anything else.
      - andrekandre 6y ago
        i seem to recal that with this technology personalized anti-cancer drugs thst teach the immune system can be created with low cost at some point... seems like a real revolution if true...
    - epilys 6y ago
      If an auto immune disease damages your body but then it stops manifesting, your body will remain damaged. A medical treatment for the caused damage would be called a cure in this case. Vaccines that stop the auto immune response are not cures. A somewhat helpful example is pancreas transplant for type 1 diabetics: the person with the transplant would be "cured" (ie they'd have their own insulin production) but the auto immune disease will destroy the donor pancreas eventually. Hopefully in the future we will have complete, synergistic treatments that take care of both.
      - DubiousPusher 6y ago
        Wouldn't this depend on the type and severity of the autoimmune disorder? Someone with mild Rheumatoid Arthritis for example would be effectively cured if the inflammatory antibodies were supressed as their inflamed joints would largely be able to heal near to their original state.
        zilian 6y ago
        You are completely right, in many autoimmune disorders if the damage is stopped in time it could be cured.
iandanforth 6y ago
Please check my understanding: Some cells in the body present features that teach the immune system that these features are 'OK' and part of the healthy body and shouldn't be attacked. This therapy seeks to cause those cells to produce features, or produce more of some features, that are being incorrectly recognized as 'bad' by the immune system. Thus correcting the immune systems 'understanding' and suppressing mistaken attacks on the body which underlies auto-immune disorders.
- DubiousPusher 6y ago
  Comparing notes, my understanding is that it causes the production of additional structures which supress the specific parts of the immune system which are attacking the body.
mrfusion 6y ago
Wow so we could make rna to produce pollen and treat seasonal allergies?
- zilian 6y ago
  The benefice/risk would not be worth it for such benign allergies
  - mrfusion 6y ago
    I’m hearing the risk is very minimal though.
    - Vecr 6y ago
      Cost/benefit at least, compared to respiratory protection and decontamination.
  - elric 6y ago
    Those are not necessarily benign allergies. They can trigger asthma attacks which can be life threatening in some cases.
neom 6y ago
I have vitiligo, I wonder if this could help me?
zilian 6y ago
So excited by this ! Im 30 and finally, after reading tons of papers about AS and/or inflammatory pathways it is the first time I can imagine a cure for my anlylosing spondylitis. Too bad it will take years of approval once developed. I volunteer for trials and not in the placebo group please !
- mb7733 6y ago
  I can't see the full text of the article and most of the abstract is over my head. Is AS mentioned in the paper or are you just hopeful that a similar thing could be developed for AS and other autoinflammitory diseases?
  - elcritch 6y ago
    The same method very likely could work for most auto-immune conditions if they can repeat the basic method in humans. They’re essentially turning on and/or ramping up the existing self-regulation mechanism of the immune system. I’ve only read the abstract, but what I’m not sure about is their selective delivery/targeting method, as that seems the hardest part. The various regulatory pathways cells are fairly well studied for most AI conditions and the mRNA sequences for their associated receptors could be programmed readily as I understand the technology. However, if it does work in humans it’ll be a huge leap forward for treatment of auto immune diseases. Perhaps long term, even inflammatory issues like arterial plaque, which we’re slowly realizing is formed by chronic inflammation as much as by high cholesterol. Alzheimer’s May also be largely driven by incorrect immune responses too. I suspect the challenge will be long term mRNA suitability, e.g. if the mRNA delivery mechanisms will develop immune reactions of their own. The cost of delivering the mRNA treatments could be large too. Biologics for autoimmune conditions require self administered shots too, but don’t require deep freezer cold. Also it could increase long term cancer risks by over stimulating self-regulatory pathways. Not sure if the full article mentions if it’s a one time shot or on going. I’m presuming ongoing dice mRNA will degrade.
    - elcritch 6y ago
      Another complication with RA and AS will be the number of linked autoantigens involved. Both RA and AS likely will benefit from collagen II autoantigens but also appear to be triggered by a bunch of other autoantigens as well. Still mRNA should cope with that case better than current methods too! It’s easy to print lots of different antigens in one go. See https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12678429/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12678429/
foxhop 6y ago
Please explain like I'm five.

88 points by lawrenceyan 6y ago

Were it to work in humans, does anyone know if there is any reason such an approach couldn't be extended to other autoimmune disorders which attack the various other tissues of the body?

_Microft 6y ago
I think this is what they are eventually aiming for. Half of the authors is affiliated with BioNTech of BioNTech/Pfizer-mRNA-vaccine-fame by the way.
- weaksauce 6y ago
  that's why i've been saying that the mRNA vaccine delivery method could be the next paradigm shift... like antibiotics were.
  - RobertoG 6y ago
    I think that this could be thought as part of a more general revolution: the know-how to program the immune system. This would include things like T-Cells therapy for cancer (1) (1) - https://science.sciencemag.org/content/371/6525/145 https://science.sciencemag.org/content/371/6525/145
  - aaomidi 6y ago
    I don't know why you're being down voted. mRNA and tcell programming is the future of medicine. We may literally not have to worry about pathogen borne, auto immune, or cancer ever again...
- jjcon 6y ago
  When people think vaccine they think, ‘only effective if taken beforehand’. Is that the case for mRNA vaccines?
  - nabla9 6y ago
    Vaccine implies acquired immunity. Exactly same mRNA tech can potentially be used to treat cancer, cardiovascular or metabolic diseases, only the messenger RNA changes. It's probably called mRNA drug instead of mRNA vaccine even if the process is the same. mRNA is tech that BioNTech is developing is completely digital. Once you have the RNA structure in the computer, you can just "print out" drug/vaccine using the same process without changing anything else.
    - andrekandre 6y ago
      i seem to recal that with this technology personalized anti-cancer drugs thst teach the immune system can be created with low cost at some point... seems like a real revolution if true...
  - epilys 6y ago
    If an auto immune disease damages your body but then it stops manifesting, your body will remain damaged. A medical treatment for the caused damage would be called a cure in this case. Vaccines that stop the auto immune response are not cures. A somewhat helpful example is pancreas transplant for type 1 diabetics: the person with the transplant would be "cured" (ie they'd have their own insulin production) but the auto immune disease will destroy the donor pancreas eventually. Hopefully in the future we will have complete, synergistic treatments that take care of both.
    - DubiousPusher 6y ago
      Wouldn't this depend on the type and severity of the autoimmune disorder? Someone with mild Rheumatoid Arthritis for example would be effectively cured if the inflammatory antibodies were supressed as their inflamed joints would largely be able to heal near to their original state.
      - zilian 6y ago
        You are completely right, in many autoimmune disorders if the damage is stopped in time it could be cured.

iandanforth 6y ago

Please check my understanding: Some cells in the body present features that teach the immune system that these features are 'OK' and part of the healthy body and shouldn't be attacked. This therapy seeks to cause those cells to produce features, or produce more of some features, that are being incorrectly recognized as 'bad' by the immune system. Thus correcting the immune systems 'understanding' and suppressing mistaken attacks on the body which underlies auto-immune disorders.

DubiousPusher 6y ago
Comparing notes, my understanding is that it causes the production of additional structures which supress the specific parts of the immune system which are attacking the body.

mrfusion 6y ago

Wow so we could make rna to produce pollen and treat seasonal allergies?

zilian 6y ago
The benefice/risk would not be worth it for such benign allergies
- mrfusion 6y ago
  I’m hearing the risk is very minimal though.
  - Vecr 6y ago
    Cost/benefit at least, compared to respiratory protection and decontamination.
- elric 6y ago
  Those are not necessarily benign allergies. They can trigger asthma attacks which can be life threatening in some cases.

neom 6y ago

I have vitiligo, I wonder if this could help me?

zilian 6y ago

So excited by this ! Im 30 and finally, after reading tons of papers about AS and/or inflammatory pathways it is the first time I can imagine a cure for my anlylosing spondylitis. Too bad it will take years of approval once developed. I volunteer for trials and not in the placebo group please !

mb7733 6y ago
I can't see the full text of the article and most of the abstract is over my head. Is AS mentioned in the paper or are you just hopeful that a similar thing could be developed for AS and other autoinflammitory diseases?
- elcritch 6y ago
  The same method very likely could work for most auto-immune conditions if they can repeat the basic method in humans. They’re essentially turning on and/or ramping up the existing self-regulation mechanism of the immune system. I’ve only read the abstract, but what I’m not sure about is their selective delivery/targeting method, as that seems the hardest part. The various regulatory pathways cells are fairly well studied for most AI conditions and the mRNA sequences for their associated receptors could be programmed readily as I understand the technology. However, if it does work in humans it’ll be a huge leap forward for treatment of auto immune diseases. Perhaps long term, even inflammatory issues like arterial plaque, which we’re slowly realizing is formed by chronic inflammation as much as by high cholesterol. Alzheimer’s May also be largely driven by incorrect immune responses too. I suspect the challenge will be long term mRNA suitability, e.g. if the mRNA delivery mechanisms will develop immune reactions of their own. The cost of delivering the mRNA treatments could be large too. Biologics for autoimmune conditions require self administered shots too, but don’t require deep freezer cold. Also it could increase long term cancer risks by over stimulating self-regulatory pathways. Not sure if the full article mentions if it’s a one time shot or on going. I’m presuming ongoing dice mRNA will degrade.
  - elcritch 6y ago
    Another complication with RA and AS will be the number of linked autoantigens involved. Both RA and AS likely will benefit from collagen II autoantigens but also appear to be triggered by a bunch of other autoantigens as well. Still mRNA should cope with that case better than current methods too! It’s easy to print lots of different antigens in one go. See https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12678429/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12678429/

foxhop 6y ago

Please explain like I'm five.