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Part of having a liberal society, as opposed to a strictly libertarian society, is that the larger social contract of law overrides any contract between two ind

Part of having a liberal society, as opposed to a strictly libertarian society, is that the larger social contract of law overrides any contract between two individuals. I, for instance, cannot sell myself into slavery. Shopify cannot have terms of service in a contract that violate federal law. The whole concern with terms of service on HN just convinces me that the practitioners need to get out more. They should also quit foisting some weird conception of software onto society. Irrespective, the objective fact that there are many ironclad things business cannot discriminate on is true and has been for a long time. Simply put, Shopify believes they should be able to discriminate against people for holding political views.

gambiting 6y ago
>>Shopify believes they should be able to discriminate against people for holding political views What a narrow point of view. Shopify is a seller platform, do you think they should be forced to sell items on their platform that they don't want to sell? Because if yes, I'd like to point you towards almost any payment processing institution in the US, since they will stop working with you the moment you start selling something they don't like(pornography, sex toys, gambling products) even if they are not illegal at all. They don't want to participate in this transaction and you can't force them. So I don't see how you could force Shopify to carry something on their platform that they don't want to.
- mc32 6y ago
  Sorry ; what’s wrong with paraphernalia? Are they selling dildos, taking wagers? Or are hats and flags and whatever else prohibited ? I can’t wait to see all other campaign merchants get delisted. To me it seems blatantly political. It’s like removing the DNC or The Biden campaign (as opposed to Biden the person).
- abernard1 6y ago
  > do you think they should be forced to sell items on their platform that they don't want to sell? Yes. They're not doing the selling, the merchant is. Shopify sells software, not things. Toyota doesn't refuse to sell me cars because they don't like where I might drive. HP doesn't refuse to sell me laptops because they don't like what I might write on it. Shopify's actions are just as ludicrous as the two I just mentioned above. The virtue signalling corporate nonsense (and that's what this is) will eventually backfire
  - gambiting 6y ago
    >> Yes. They're not doing the selling, the merchant is. Shopify sells software, not things. Well, then you're simply wrong, Shopify should have the right to not do this business with another company if they chose to. Again, I'd like to point you towards for instance Stripe who also isn't "doing the selling" yet will stop working with you if the product you(the merchant) are selling isn't liked by their backing bank - and that happens all the time with things that I mentioned, despite them being legal . They cannot be forced to work with you nor should they be. >>Toyota doesn't refuse to sell me cars because they don't like where I might drive. Toyota won't because it would make a poor business decision, but Ferrari absolutely won't sell you a car if you want to repaint it and use for messing around. They famously refuse to sell their cars to YouTubers and celebrities who they don't want associated with their brand. What, do you think they should be forced to? How would that even look like? A court order where Ferrari has to sell you a car under threat of penalties? Does that not sound insane to you? >>HP doesn't refuse to sell me laptops because they don't like what I might write on it. No, because again, that doesn't make good business sense. But for instance apple will refuse to sell their laptops to be used in productions they don't want to be associated with. Nvidia won't sell you their GeForce cards if you're an academic institution or research institution(because they would rather sell you quattro cards). Again, how will you force them to again? I mean, we can keep going on like this for a while if you'd like. >>Shopify's actions are just as ludicrous as the two I just mentioned above. So, not ludicrous at all then, we're in agreement then. Look, you're being completely unreasonable to prove a point that is ultimately just wrong.
otterley 6y ago
> Shopify believes they should be able to discriminate against people for holding political views. So what? Do you think Shopify should be forced to do business with someone who wants to sell Nazi paraphernalia? Do you think you should be forced to do business with someone who does?

gambiting 6y ago

>>Shopify believes they should be able to discriminate against people for holding political views What a narrow point of view. Shopify is a seller platform, do you think they should be forced to sell items on their platform that they don't want to sell? Because if yes, I'd like to point you towards almost any payment processing institution in the US, since they will stop working with you the moment you start selling something they don't like(pornography, sex toys, gambling products) even if they are not illegal at all. They don't want to participate in this transaction and you can't force them. So I don't see how you could force Shopify to carry something on their platform that they don't want to.

mc32 6y ago
Sorry ; what’s wrong with paraphernalia? Are they selling dildos, taking wagers? Or are hats and flags and whatever else prohibited ? I can’t wait to see all other campaign merchants get delisted. To me it seems blatantly political. It’s like removing the DNC or The Biden campaign (as opposed to Biden the person).
abernard1 6y ago
> do you think they should be forced to sell items on their platform that they don't want to sell? Yes. They're not doing the selling, the merchant is. Shopify sells software, not things. Toyota doesn't refuse to sell me cars because they don't like where I might drive. HP doesn't refuse to sell me laptops because they don't like what I might write on it. Shopify's actions are just as ludicrous as the two I just mentioned above. The virtue signalling corporate nonsense (and that's what this is) will eventually backfire
- gambiting 6y ago
  >> Yes. They're not doing the selling, the merchant is. Shopify sells software, not things. Well, then you're simply wrong, Shopify should have the right to not do this business with another company if they chose to. Again, I'd like to point you towards for instance Stripe who also isn't "doing the selling" yet will stop working with you if the product you(the merchant) are selling isn't liked by their backing bank - and that happens all the time with things that I mentioned, despite them being legal . They cannot be forced to work with you nor should they be. >>Toyota doesn't refuse to sell me cars because they don't like where I might drive. Toyota won't because it would make a poor business decision, but Ferrari absolutely won't sell you a car if you want to repaint it and use for messing around. They famously refuse to sell their cars to YouTubers and celebrities who they don't want associated with their brand. What, do you think they should be forced to? How would that even look like? A court order where Ferrari has to sell you a car under threat of penalties? Does that not sound insane to you? >>HP doesn't refuse to sell me laptops because they don't like what I might write on it. No, because again, that doesn't make good business sense. But for instance apple will refuse to sell their laptops to be used in productions they don't want to be associated with. Nvidia won't sell you their GeForce cards if you're an academic institution or research institution(because they would rather sell you quattro cards). Again, how will you force them to again? I mean, we can keep going on like this for a while if you'd like. >>Shopify's actions are just as ludicrous as the two I just mentioned above. So, not ludicrous at all then, we're in agreement then. Look, you're being completely unreasonable to prove a point that is ultimately just wrong.

otterley 6y ago

> Shopify believes they should be able to discriminate against people for holding political views. So what? Do you think Shopify should be forced to do business with someone who wants to sell Nazi paraphernalia? Do you think you should be forced to do business with someone who does?