4 ms·

Nintendo would hopefully become higher quality under Microsoft, that's what they'd get out of it. Microsoft has shown they can culture a good developer ecosyste

by jbob2000 6y ago

Nintendo would hopefully become higher quality under Microsoft, that's what they'd get out of it. Microsoft has shown they can culture a good developer ecosystem, Nintendo is awful for third party developers. Nintendo also struggles with new technology, their systems are always a step behind and they were critically late to having games on the app stores (the extreme success of Pokemon Go after a decade of thinking smartphones weren't worth it is an egg on the face of the Nintendo leadership). They really just have a strong brand, that's about all Nintendo has going for it. Microsoft can steward the brand like they did for Minecraft and it wouldn't lose any value, we'd just get higher quality games and hardware.

bloodorange 6y ago
Nintendo made so many brilliant games in the Mario franchise. Likewise with Zelda (and Metroid and there will be more if you look closely). Their consoles are typically robustly made. The controller-drift issue with Switch being a notable recent exception. As for their systems being "behind", the xbox and playstation motion sensing controllers came _after_ the Nintendo Wii made them popular. The Switch came with a new idea of a console which is both a handheld and one connected to a television. The 3DS came with a lenticular 3D display. Unless you measure being ahead/behind in the sole axis of computational power, they are setting trends and taking gaming to new places. They are a serious pain when it comes to how they hound fanmade products which might feature any of their IP, have a substandard system for online play, or a poor developer experience but being of sub-par quality is definitely more in microsoft's department than Nintendo's.
- jbob2000 6y ago
  It's not good for a platform developer to be the only one making killer games. This is a lack of diversity that is a weakness. The titles you mention are the only good franchises on Switch, third party titles have not had the same success. Meanwhile, Microsoft has had huge third party success for their platform with Call of Duty and other publisher titles. No doubt Nintendo has been innovative with the control schemes for their systems, but nothing has really stuck. The 3D display was a gimmick, they even released a second version without it because it was so gimmicky. I'm not impressed with making a robust console in 2020 as a selling point. I have an iPhone, my expectations for robustness are higher now. The Switch is cheap and clunky and the screen is low res. Great, it can handle falls - welcome to 2005 electronics.
  - squeaky-clean 6y ago
    > It's not good for a platform developer to be the only one making killer games. [Citation Needed]. Nintendo has clearly earned a reputation for first party games above any other manufacturer. Nothing really competes with their first party games like BotW, Animal Crossing, Smash Bros, and so on. I can get Call of Duty on PC, Xbox, Playstation. I don't really see how that's a compelling case for the Microsoft platform. The latest Xbox seems better than the PS5 in my opinion on hardware and price, but the PS5 still seems like a better buy because they have exclusive games and the Xbox Series s/x does not. I'd say among gamers it's pretty universally agreed that the Switch is not a competing console with PC/Xbox/Playstation. It's an "And" console. You don't get a switch as an alternative to one of the above consoles, you get it as a supplement to the others. Unless you're a casual gamer, in which case you probably just get the Switch.
    - ThrowawayR2 6y ago
      > "[Citation Needed] Nintendo has clearly earned a reputation for first party games above any other manufacturer." https://www.businessinsider.com/nintendo-reliance-on-first-party-games-huge-risk-to-business-2019-2 https://www.businessinsider.com/nintendo-reliance-on-first-p... I mean this isn't controversial within the games industry. Having diverse sources of revenue matter to support themselves if their first party games take a stumble for whatever reason is critical. It's not like Nintendo hasn't had downturns in the past, e.g. the Wii U era.
    - filoleg 6y ago
      Fully agreed. Nintendo has a very differentiated market of game offerings on their platforms, and that's the reason people buy it. They don't buy Switch for the (underpowered compared to competitors) hardware, or something else. That's imo the biggest problem Xbox console is facing. Does it have good third party games? Plenty. Does it make sense to buy Xbox if you already own a PS4/PS5 or a gaming PC? Not really, since the overlap of third party games available on all of them is giant. The only game I know people care about that is Xbox exclusive is Halo series. I don't know a single person who owns a PS4/PS5+Xbox or even gaming PC+Xbox. I know tons of people owning a PC+PS4/PS5, and I know a ton of people who own either a PS4/PS5+Switch or gaming PC+Switch (or all 3 of them). And that's Nintendo's unique offering, being an incredible complement to other consoles, not a direct competitor, while also being a great product of its own that doesn't just function as an add-on. Mind you, I am not saying that Nintendo shouldn't increase the number of third party games present on their platform, quite the opposite. The increase of third party games on Switch is a really welcome development. However, under no circumstances should they decrease the number of first party games, otherwise they would end up in a losing position.
ionwake 6y ago
I disagree with most of your points and your conclusion. Especially the "create a good developer ecosystem". You provided no examples either, which makes me think you have never been involved with Microsoft as a member of the game development community. My experience, was poor. To say the least.
- jbob2000 6y ago
  I'll look for the article to link here (which I probably initially read on HN) but it was a blog post that described a developer's experience slogging through Nintendo docs and working with Nintendo and it being very slow and difficult. He went on to describe that he had none of these problems when dealing with Microsoft (and to a lesser extent Sony).
  - ionwake 6y ago
    Ah I remember. Thanks for the reply sorry if I sounded too negative.
jimmydorry 6y ago
Do you have any examples of how Microsoft acted as a good steward for the Minecraft brand? I haven't seen anything positive come from their control. On the other hand, the brand hasn't regressed either, but you would surely expect something more than that from new owners. Parity with the java edition would have been a good start, followed by actual support for more than just cosmetic modding.

bloodorange 6y ago

Nintendo made so many brilliant games in the Mario franchise. Likewise with Zelda (and Metroid and there will be more if you look closely). Their consoles are typically robustly made. The controller-drift issue with Switch being a notable recent exception. As for their systems being "behind", the xbox and playstation motion sensing controllers came _after_ the Nintendo Wii made them popular. The Switch came with a new idea of a console which is both a handheld and one connected to a television. The 3DS came with a lenticular 3D display. Unless you measure being ahead/behind in the sole axis of computational power, they are setting trends and taking gaming to new places. They are a serious pain when it comes to how they hound fanmade products which might feature any of their IP, have a substandard system for online play, or a poor developer experience but being of sub-par quality is definitely more in microsoft's department than Nintendo's.

jbob2000 6y ago
It's not good for a platform developer to be the only one making killer games. This is a lack of diversity that is a weakness. The titles you mention are the only good franchises on Switch, third party titles have not had the same success. Meanwhile, Microsoft has had huge third party success for their platform with Call of Duty and other publisher titles. No doubt Nintendo has been innovative with the control schemes for their systems, but nothing has really stuck. The 3D display was a gimmick, they even released a second version without it because it was so gimmicky. I'm not impressed with making a robust console in 2020 as a selling point. I have an iPhone, my expectations for robustness are higher now. The Switch is cheap and clunky and the screen is low res. Great, it can handle falls - welcome to 2005 electronics.
- squeaky-clean 6y ago
  > It's not good for a platform developer to be the only one making killer games. [Citation Needed]. Nintendo has clearly earned a reputation for first party games above any other manufacturer. Nothing really competes with their first party games like BotW, Animal Crossing, Smash Bros, and so on. I can get Call of Duty on PC, Xbox, Playstation. I don't really see how that's a compelling case for the Microsoft platform. The latest Xbox seems better than the PS5 in my opinion on hardware and price, but the PS5 still seems like a better buy because they have exclusive games and the Xbox Series s/x does not. I'd say among gamers it's pretty universally agreed that the Switch is not a competing console with PC/Xbox/Playstation. It's an "And" console. You don't get a switch as an alternative to one of the above consoles, you get it as a supplement to the others. Unless you're a casual gamer, in which case you probably just get the Switch.
  - ThrowawayR2 6y ago
    > "[Citation Needed] Nintendo has clearly earned a reputation for first party games above any other manufacturer." https://www.businessinsider.com/nintendo-reliance-on-first-party-games-huge-risk-to-business-2019-2 https://www.businessinsider.com/nintendo-reliance-on-first-p... I mean this isn't controversial within the games industry. Having diverse sources of revenue matter to support themselves if their first party games take a stumble for whatever reason is critical. It's not like Nintendo hasn't had downturns in the past, e.g. the Wii U era.
  - filoleg 6y ago
    Fully agreed. Nintendo has a very differentiated market of game offerings on their platforms, and that's the reason people buy it. They don't buy Switch for the (underpowered compared to competitors) hardware, or something else. That's imo the biggest problem Xbox console is facing. Does it have good third party games? Plenty. Does it make sense to buy Xbox if you already own a PS4/PS5 or a gaming PC? Not really, since the overlap of third party games available on all of them is giant. The only game I know people care about that is Xbox exclusive is Halo series. I don't know a single person who owns a PS4/PS5+Xbox or even gaming PC+Xbox. I know tons of people owning a PC+PS4/PS5, and I know a ton of people who own either a PS4/PS5+Switch or gaming PC+Switch (or all 3 of them). And that's Nintendo's unique offering, being an incredible complement to other consoles, not a direct competitor, while also being a great product of its own that doesn't just function as an add-on. Mind you, I am not saying that Nintendo shouldn't increase the number of third party games present on their platform, quite the opposite. The increase of third party games on Switch is a really welcome development. However, under no circumstances should they decrease the number of first party games, otherwise they would end up in a losing position.

ionwake 6y ago

I disagree with most of your points and your conclusion. Especially the "create a good developer ecosystem". You provided no examples either, which makes me think you have never been involved with Microsoft as a member of the game development community. My experience, was poor. To say the least.

jbob2000 6y ago
I'll look for the article to link here (which I probably initially read on HN) but it was a blog post that described a developer's experience slogging through Nintendo docs and working with Nintendo and it being very slow and difficult. He went on to describe that he had none of these problems when dealing with Microsoft (and to a lesser extent Sony).
- ionwake 6y ago
  Ah I remember. Thanks for the reply sorry if I sounded too negative.

jimmydorry 6y ago

Do you have any examples of how Microsoft acted as a good steward for the Minecraft brand? I haven't seen anything positive come from their control. On the other hand, the brand hasn't regressed either, but you would surely expect something more than that from new owners. Parity with the java edition would have been a good start, followed by actual support for more than just cosmetic modding.