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Very interesting proposition, I hope the company flourishes! I'm not HR but I'm pretty sure the anti-overtime provision is completely illegal at least in count

Very interesting proposition, I hope the company flourishes! I'm not HR but I'm pretty sure the anti-overtime provision is completely illegal at least in countries like the US and Canada. I would outlaw overtime instead of pay people less for overtime.

caymanjim 6y ago
> I'm pretty sure the anti-overtime provision is completely illegal at least in countries like the US This is incorrect. The tldr is that US employees are either "exempt" or "non-exempt". Without getting into pedantic details, employees can be categorized as exempt if they make over about $23k/year. Exempt employees are not entitled to overtime at all, and the Fair Labor Standards Act doesn't prohibit reducing someone's hourly pay for overtime in the unusual way that Gumroad does.
- NationalPark 6y ago
  They're contractors not employees, but you are correct. There's nothing illegal about the arrangement.
  - Pulcinella 6y ago
    The wording of the article seemed unclear to me. You can have employees who are on contract. E.g. most public school teachers in America are on contract and full time employees of the school district. Most employment in the US is at-will and not on contract, though.
    - throwaway201103 6y ago
      A contractor is different from a contract employee.
- etskinner 6y ago
  It's not the wage that dictates that a worker is exempt from FLSA overtime. Rather, being under $23,600/yr means you cannot be considered exempt. Being paid over that, by itself, doesn't necessarily mean that you're exempt. https://www.fws.gov/policy/225fw6.html https://www.fws.gov/policy/225fw6.html https://webapps.dol.gov/elaws/whd/flsa/screen75.asp https://webapps.dol.gov/elaws/whd/flsa/screen75.asp
  - IG_Semmelweiss 6y ago
    correct. If you are a contractor you should be clear to do whatever you want with regards to overtime (because it doesn't exist.) Only employees are regulated by overtime laws. However as many know the definition of contractor can be rebutted by an aggressive state DOL. Then it comes down to control: Who sets the schedule. Who pays the expenses. Who decides what is worked on. Who decides how long someone is working, etc. Remote can only help Gum's case, and the way the founder describes the arrangement, it would seem to pass muster. Be warned that passing muster does not mean that legally he would not need to fight it. Founder may mean expensive lawyer fees to defend Gum. So word of advice for Gum - document your processes for task management and scheduling internally , just as you document your code! Be clear that it is the professionals (not you) who are dictating what gets done, and when. That should be enough.
yarcob 6y ago
I'm pretty sure that most overtime regulations apply only when the employer instructs you to work overtime. You get a higher rate because you have to work more hours than you agreed in your contract. You can't just voluntarily work more hours than your contract states and expect to get paid more.

caymanjim 6y ago

> I'm pretty sure the anti-overtime provision is completely illegal at least in countries like the US This is incorrect. The tldr is that US employees are either "exempt" or "non-exempt". Without getting into pedantic details, employees can be categorized as exempt if they make over about $23k/year. Exempt employees are not entitled to overtime at all, and the Fair Labor Standards Act doesn't prohibit reducing someone's hourly pay for overtime in the unusual way that Gumroad does.

NationalPark 6y ago
They're contractors not employees, but you are correct. There's nothing illegal about the arrangement.
- Pulcinella 6y ago
  The wording of the article seemed unclear to me. You can have employees who are on contract. E.g. most public school teachers in America are on contract and full time employees of the school district. Most employment in the US is at-will and not on contract, though.
  - throwaway201103 6y ago
    A contractor is different from a contract employee.
etskinner 6y ago
It's not the wage that dictates that a worker is exempt from FLSA overtime. Rather, being under $23,600/yr means you cannot be considered exempt. Being paid over that, by itself, doesn't necessarily mean that you're exempt. https://www.fws.gov/policy/225fw6.html https://www.fws.gov/policy/225fw6.html https://webapps.dol.gov/elaws/whd/flsa/screen75.asp https://webapps.dol.gov/elaws/whd/flsa/screen75.asp
- IG_Semmelweiss 6y ago
  correct. If you are a contractor you should be clear to do whatever you want with regards to overtime (because it doesn't exist.) Only employees are regulated by overtime laws. However as many know the definition of contractor can be rebutted by an aggressive state DOL. Then it comes down to control: Who sets the schedule. Who pays the expenses. Who decides what is worked on. Who decides how long someone is working, etc. Remote can only help Gum's case, and the way the founder describes the arrangement, it would seem to pass muster. Be warned that passing muster does not mean that legally he would not need to fight it. Founder may mean expensive lawyer fees to defend Gum. So word of advice for Gum - document your processes for task management and scheduling internally , just as you document your code! Be clear that it is the professionals (not you) who are dictating what gets done, and when. That should be enough.

yarcob 6y ago

I'm pretty sure that most overtime regulations apply only when the employer instructs you to work overtime. You get a higher rate because you have to work more hours than you agreed in your contract. You can't just voluntarily work more hours than your contract states and expect to get paid more.