4 ms·

God I remember when everywhere (even in school) was hooked on the "you are killing your kids with butter, eat margarine" line. Of course, then they banned it m

by weego 15y ago

God I remember when everywhere (even in school) was hooked on the "you are killing your kids with butter, eat margarine" line. Of course, then they banned it most sensible places because of the hydrogenated/trans fats. Shocking that something made by chemical process by companies with large sums of money will be heavily advertised and pushed to people over, say, something that can't be patented by any one body. Similarly, carb laden foods are cheap to produce and will last even if stored badly, you just have to try going out to dinner to an "average place" and try not to eat something where the dish is not mostly potato, noodles, rice, or flour based (pasta, bread, pizza base) to see why industry wouldn't think it was great if carbs came with health warnings. Having said that, It strikes me from experiences in the past that everyone reacts differently to the mix of carbs and fats in their diet, but everyone seems to react to good amounts of protein, so while I'm not sure either should be demonised, clean sources of protein should be made more important.

hvs 15y ago
You just used the words "potato", "noodles", "rice", and "flour" in a distinctly negative tone. Those are some of my favorite foods, preferable doused in butter. And I'm 6'1", 170 lbs.
- lsb 15y ago
  The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
  - pyre 15y ago
    Though "carbs are evil" implies that it affects everyone.
  - hvs 15y ago
    I agree. I guess I didn't make it clear that I was saying that those foods aren't necessarily bad just because they are carbs. My personal data is irrelevant (and largely due to the fact that my metabolism seems to be on par with a smelting furnace).
- terio 15y ago
  Fair enough, but, like the article points out, personal experience, or case studies, doesn't count as scientific proof here. My own experience is that I can eat as much butter (real butter), bacon, olive oil, and other fats as I want and my weight won't change. But as soon as I start to eat bread and potatoes, I can easily gain 10 pounds. This is a very complex issue. For every single person there are many factors involved, like personal make, hormones, age, genetics, even how your mother ate when you were in the womb. On the big scale, these studies are trying to find the cause for the obesity (and heart disease) epidemics. The accumulating evidence is pointing to carbs as the culprit.
  - warmfuzzykitten 15y ago
    Yes, of course. You are following the Atkins diet, basically all fat and protein, very limited carbs. This is an effective way to maintain or lose weight and it's been shown to have positive cardiovascular effects. On the other hand, the best studied and most effective diet for weight loss and cardiovascular health is the Ornish diet, which is almost the exact opposite: no meat, no fat, lots of vegetables, rice and non-fat yogurt. Plus exercise and meditation. Both work and they are on opposite sides of the fat/no-fat spectrum. (My own experience is that cardiologists are eager to recommend the Ornish diet and don't really believe the studies favoring the Atkins diet. Doctors are people. They believe what the culture believes.) The success of both of these diets may suggest to some that nutrition is too complex, that all people are different, that different people react well to different diets, etc. In other words, don't listen to science and follow your gut. That path leads to your gut hanging over your belt. The simpler explanation is to look at what both the Atkins and Ornish diets restrict: "Sugar and simple sugar derivatives -- honey, molasses, corn syrup, and high-fructose syrup" (WebMD). The accumulating evidence is not pointing to carbs as the culprit, it's pointing to sugar.
    - babblefrog 15y ago
      Hmmm. More complex carbs are pretty much chains of glucose. The sugars you are talking about are glucose and fructose, about 50/50. If your explanation is the correct one, does that mean the problem is really fructose?
- artmageddon 15y ago
  I'm sure he didn't mean to offend you, but those were mentioned because they are pretty rich in carbs. I must say though I haven't heard of anyone eating flour, especially doused in butter, no less ;) Regarding your height/weight: age, physical fitness and genetic disposition are also determinants of that along with your diet. Edit: I'm 29, 6'1" and 180 pounds (I could lose another 10-15 pounds if I got back into marathon-running condition), and I do enjoy eating foods such as pasta on a regular basis.
  - hvs 15y ago
    I beg to differ: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roux http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roux
    - artmageddon 15y ago
      It's very possible that I've eaten this in a dish but never knew what it was. Thanks - I like learning about things like this!
16s 15y ago
You can set margarine out in hot sun all day and it'll will not melt. Once I saw that, I knew I'd never eat it. I'll take butter any day.
- wtn 15y ago
  Things that melt are safer to eat?

by weego 15y ago

hvs 15y ago

You just used the words "potato", "noodles", "rice", and "flour" in a distinctly negative tone. Those are some of my favorite foods, preferable doused in butter. And I'm 6'1", 170 lbs.

lsb 15y ago
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
- pyre 15y ago
  Though "carbs are evil" implies that it affects everyone.
- hvs 15y ago
  I agree. I guess I didn't make it clear that I was saying that those foods aren't necessarily bad just because they are carbs. My personal data is irrelevant (and largely due to the fact that my metabolism seems to be on par with a smelting furnace).
terio 15y ago
Fair enough, but, like the article points out, personal experience, or case studies, doesn't count as scientific proof here. My own experience is that I can eat as much butter (real butter), bacon, olive oil, and other fats as I want and my weight won't change. But as soon as I start to eat bread and potatoes, I can easily gain 10 pounds. This is a very complex issue. For every single person there are many factors involved, like personal make, hormones, age, genetics, even how your mother ate when you were in the womb. On the big scale, these studies are trying to find the cause for the obesity (and heart disease) epidemics. The accumulating evidence is pointing to carbs as the culprit.
- warmfuzzykitten 15y ago
  Yes, of course. You are following the Atkins diet, basically all fat and protein, very limited carbs. This is an effective way to maintain or lose weight and it's been shown to have positive cardiovascular effects. On the other hand, the best studied and most effective diet for weight loss and cardiovascular health is the Ornish diet, which is almost the exact opposite: no meat, no fat, lots of vegetables, rice and non-fat yogurt. Plus exercise and meditation. Both work and they are on opposite sides of the fat/no-fat spectrum. (My own experience is that cardiologists are eager to recommend the Ornish diet and don't really believe the studies favoring the Atkins diet. Doctors are people. They believe what the culture believes.) The success of both of these diets may suggest to some that nutrition is too complex, that all people are different, that different people react well to different diets, etc. In other words, don't listen to science and follow your gut. That path leads to your gut hanging over your belt. The simpler explanation is to look at what both the Atkins and Ornish diets restrict: "Sugar and simple sugar derivatives -- honey, molasses, corn syrup, and high-fructose syrup" (WebMD). The accumulating evidence is not pointing to carbs as the culprit, it's pointing to sugar.
  - babblefrog 15y ago
    Hmmm. More complex carbs are pretty much chains of glucose. The sugars you are talking about are glucose and fructose, about 50/50. If your explanation is the correct one, does that mean the problem is really fructose?
artmageddon 15y ago
I'm sure he didn't mean to offend you, but those were mentioned because they are pretty rich in carbs. I must say though I haven't heard of anyone eating flour, especially doused in butter, no less ;) Regarding your height/weight: age, physical fitness and genetic disposition are also determinants of that along with your diet. Edit: I'm 29, 6'1" and 180 pounds (I could lose another 10-15 pounds if I got back into marathon-running condition), and I do enjoy eating foods such as pasta on a regular basis.
- hvs 15y ago
  I beg to differ: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roux http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roux
  - artmageddon 15y ago
    It's very possible that I've eaten this in a dish but never knew what it was. Thanks - I like learning about things like this!

16s 15y ago

You can set margarine out in hot sun all day and it'll will not melt. Once I saw that, I knew I'd never eat it. I'll take butter any day.

wtn 15y ago
Things that melt are safer to eat?