5 ms·

I don't use any messenger apps, but I work in AdTech. Just curious, what exactly are you trying to hide? What kind of information is being shared by WhatsApp?

bitcharmer 6y ago
> what exactly are you trying to hide The contents of my messages, photos of my kids, who I talk to and when, my location. Is that enough for you?
- andreygrehov 6y ago
  Do they explicitly say it? If yes, how do they use this information? Any phone uploads your photos to a cloud these days.
  - bitcharmer 6y ago
    > how do they use this information? I don't know. Do you? The terms and conditions say they do it for "operating and providing our Services". It's vague on purpose. And it's not only FB, it's their "business partners" (read it as: whoever pays us) too. "As part of the Facebook family of companies, WhatsApp receives information from, and shares information with, this family of companies. We may use the information we receive from them, and they may use the information we share with them, to help operate, provide, improve, understand, customize, support, and market our Services and their offerings. This includes helping improve infrastructure and delivery systems, understanding how our Services or theirs are used, securing systems, and fighting spam, abuse, or infringement activities. Facebook and the other companies in the Facebook family also may use information from us to improve your experiences within their services such as making product suggestions (for example, of friends or connections, or of interesting content) and showing relevant offers and ads. However, your WhatsApp messages will not be shared onto Facebook for others to see. In fact, Facebook will not use your WhatsApp messages for any purpose other than to assist us in operating and providing our Services." https://www.whatsapp.com/legal/updates/privacy-policy/?lang=en https://www.whatsapp.com/legal/updates/privacy-policy/?lang=...
    - andreygrehov 6y ago
      So, I took a look. You said that they share the contests of your messages. Looks like that's simply wrong. Messsages "We do not retain your messages in the ordinary course of providing our Services to you. Instead, your messages are stored on your device and not typically stored on our servers. Once your messages are delivered, they are deleted from our servers." Photos "When a user forwards media within a message, we store that media temporarily in encrypted form on our servers" Automatically Collected Information Usage And Log Information, Device And Connection Information, Location Information and Cookies. What am I missing? What exactly is WhatsApp doing wrong? Once again, I hate shady shit, but I'm not seeing anything crazy in here.
      - bitcharmer 6y ago
        They don't have to store anything to make a good use of that data.
        andreygrehov 6y ago
        "The information we share with the other Facebook Companies. includes your account registration information (such as your phone number), transaction data, service-related information, information on how you interact with others (including businesses) when using our Services, mobile device information, your IP address, and may include other information identified in the Privacy Policy section entitled ‘Information We Collect’ or obtained upon notice to you or based on your consent." All in all, nothing special. Nobody shares your messages/media.
        bitcharmer 6y ago
        The very block of text you quoted is terrifying for me. Why am I getting the impression there is no convincing you about how bad for our privacy this is?
        andreygrehov 6y ago
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
millibar 6y ago
Not really trying to hide as such, but I did become a father recently and my wife and I use WhatsApp to communicate with health professionals and sometime send sensitive images of our son what we would not want views by anyone else.
millibar 6y ago
Do you use the default messenger apps that come pre-installed or just non what-so-ever? And Why?
- andreygrehov 6y ago
  On a daily basis, when it comes to messaging, I simply text my friends.
Yetanfou 6y ago
Are you serious here? Working in AdTech - which does (or at least should) translate to "working on undoing the good which used to be the public internet" - you most certainly realise, and possibly salivate over the breadth and width of Facebook's means to profile 'net users, whether those be actual Facebook (as in "Facebook the site, Instagram, WhatsApp and whatever other company they reeled in") users or otherwise. For those who want to keep their exposure to AdTech as small as possible it is adamant not to feed the beast if this can be avoided. That means not using any of their products and blocking access to any of their properties. It means not believing a word of what Facebook says about keeping WhatsApp apart from their other properties as they have shown time and again that they can not be trusted - something which is endemic when it concerns anything related to AdTech, probably because the lure of all that user data just waiting to be exploited is simply too big. While this might not work as an argument to convince friends and family to stay away from Facebook (et al) it is the actual reason for doing so. It is just that the argument smacks too much of politics and zealotry to get people to change their ways. To answer the original poster's question I'd suggest to simply use something else and give those friends and family your contact info on that other thing. There are plenty of options out there, all with their own pros and cons. The easiest sell will probably be Telegram since it offers a far superior user experience over WhatsApp, especially for those who use more than a single device. That this implies that Telegram stores user data and as such theoretically could do all sorts of nefarious things with it is just as interesting to the average user as the fact that Facebook will have been abusing WhatsApp data for years now, most people simply don't care. Telegram now also offers video calls by the way which takes away the last advantage WhatsApp had.
- andreygrehov 6y ago
  I am 100% serious. I get the "ad-free public internet" nostalgia, but ads is an inevitable component of our economy. The good old internet was good only because it was something new and unknown. The very first newspapers did not have ads. 100 years after, Benjamin Franklin pulled the trigger and started a column for advertisers to promote their products and services. Ads are valuable. They can make a huge difference for your business. Ads are not going anywhere in the near future. Working for AdTech doesn't mean undoing the good. Given that the internet is pretty young, there is nothing to undo. Working for AdTech means improving what's already out there. Don't get me wrong. I hate ads. Who doesn't? Everyone in AdTech uses ad blocker, such is life ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ But, every time I launch a new project, I need some form of advertisement. It can be be Show HN, Product Hunt or Google PPC. But I need ads. You need ads. And if you don't need them now, you most likely will in the future. I obviously don't know everything about AdTech and I'm sure there are a ton of shady players, exploiting your software/hardware to sneak some ads in (reputable firms do not appreciate such behavior). But from what I do know, the kind of data being shared by apps is so boring that it's actually in a user's best interest to allow the data to be shared. Otherwise doctors will see ads about vaping and fishers will see ads about the latest JavaScript IDEs. Which is why I asked, what exactly is being shared by WhatsApp? I honestly don't give a shit about Facebook knowing my gender, age, the city I'm from, etc. I'm 34, male, living in New York. Now what? In contrast, if WhatsApp shares your messages and files with third-party companies, then that's for sure a shady shit that affect your security. A whole separate conversation.
anoncake 6y ago
> Just curious, what exactly are you trying to hide? That's none of your business.
fsflover 6y ago
> what exactly are you trying to hide? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25416123 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25416123

bitcharmer 6y ago

> what exactly are you trying to hide The contents of my messages, photos of my kids, who I talk to and when, my location. Is that enough for you?

andreygrehov 6y ago
Do they explicitly say it? If yes, how do they use this information? Any phone uploads your photos to a cloud these days.
- bitcharmer 6y ago
  > how do they use this information? I don't know. Do you? The terms and conditions say they do it for "operating and providing our Services". It's vague on purpose. And it's not only FB, it's their "business partners" (read it as: whoever pays us) too. "As part of the Facebook family of companies, WhatsApp receives information from, and shares information with, this family of companies. We may use the information we receive from them, and they may use the information we share with them, to help operate, provide, improve, understand, customize, support, and market our Services and their offerings. This includes helping improve infrastructure and delivery systems, understanding how our Services or theirs are used, securing systems, and fighting spam, abuse, or infringement activities. Facebook and the other companies in the Facebook family also may use information from us to improve your experiences within their services such as making product suggestions (for example, of friends or connections, or of interesting content) and showing relevant offers and ads. However, your WhatsApp messages will not be shared onto Facebook for others to see. In fact, Facebook will not use your WhatsApp messages for any purpose other than to assist us in operating and providing our Services." https://www.whatsapp.com/legal/updates/privacy-policy/?lang=en https://www.whatsapp.com/legal/updates/privacy-policy/?lang=...
  - andreygrehov 6y ago
    So, I took a look. You said that they share the contests of your messages. Looks like that's simply wrong. Messsages "We do not retain your messages in the ordinary course of providing our Services to you. Instead, your messages are stored on your device and not typically stored on our servers. Once your messages are delivered, they are deleted from our servers." Photos "When a user forwards media within a message, we store that media temporarily in encrypted form on our servers" Automatically Collected Information Usage And Log Information, Device And Connection Information, Location Information and Cookies. What am I missing? What exactly is WhatsApp doing wrong? Once again, I hate shady shit, but I'm not seeing anything crazy in here.
    - bitcharmer 6y ago
      They don't have to store anything to make a good use of that data.
      - andreygrehov 6y ago
        "The information we share with the other Facebook Companies. includes your account registration information (such as your phone number), transaction data, service-related information, information on how you interact with others (including businesses) when using our Services, mobile device information, your IP address, and may include other information identified in the Privacy Policy section entitled ‘Information We Collect’ or obtained upon notice to you or based on your consent." All in all, nothing special. Nobody shares your messages/media.
        bitcharmer 6y ago
        The very block of text you quoted is terrifying for me. Why am I getting the impression there is no convincing you about how bad for our privacy this is?
        andreygrehov 6y ago
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

millibar 6y ago

Not really trying to hide as such, but I did become a father recently and my wife and I use WhatsApp to communicate with health professionals and sometime send sensitive images of our son what we would not want views by anyone else.

millibar 6y ago

Do you use the default messenger apps that come pre-installed or just non what-so-ever? And Why?

andreygrehov 6y ago
On a daily basis, when it comes to messaging, I simply text my friends.

Yetanfou 6y ago

Are you serious here? Working in AdTech - which does (or at least should) translate to "working on undoing the good which used to be the public internet" - you most certainly realise, and possibly salivate over the breadth and width of Facebook's means to profile 'net users, whether those be actual Facebook (as in "Facebook the site, Instagram, WhatsApp and whatever other company they reeled in") users or otherwise. For those who want to keep their exposure to AdTech as small as possible it is adamant not to feed the beast if this can be avoided. That means not using any of their products and blocking access to any of their properties. It means not believing a word of what Facebook says about keeping WhatsApp apart from their other properties as they have shown time and again that they can not be trusted - something which is endemic when it concerns anything related to AdTech, probably because the lure of all that user data just waiting to be exploited is simply too big. While this might not work as an argument to convince friends and family to stay away from Facebook (et al) it is the actual reason for doing so. It is just that the argument smacks too much of politics and zealotry to get people to change their ways. To answer the original poster's question I'd suggest to simply use something else and give those friends and family your contact info on that other thing. There are plenty of options out there, all with their own pros and cons. The easiest sell will probably be Telegram since it offers a far superior user experience over WhatsApp, especially for those who use more than a single device. That this implies that Telegram stores user data and as such theoretically could do all sorts of nefarious things with it is just as interesting to the average user as the fact that Facebook will have been abusing WhatsApp data for years now, most people simply don't care. Telegram now also offers video calls by the way which takes away the last advantage WhatsApp had.

andreygrehov 6y ago
I am 100% serious. I get the "ad-free public internet" nostalgia, but ads is an inevitable component of our economy. The good old internet was good only because it was something new and unknown. The very first newspapers did not have ads. 100 years after, Benjamin Franklin pulled the trigger and started a column for advertisers to promote their products and services. Ads are valuable. They can make a huge difference for your business. Ads are not going anywhere in the near future. Working for AdTech doesn't mean undoing the good. Given that the internet is pretty young, there is nothing to undo. Working for AdTech means improving what's already out there. Don't get me wrong. I hate ads. Who doesn't? Everyone in AdTech uses ad blocker, such is life ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ But, every time I launch a new project, I need some form of advertisement. It can be be Show HN, Product Hunt or Google PPC. But I need ads. You need ads. And if you don't need them now, you most likely will in the future. I obviously don't know everything about AdTech and I'm sure there are a ton of shady players, exploiting your software/hardware to sneak some ads in (reputable firms do not appreciate such behavior). But from what I do know, the kind of data being shared by apps is so boring that it's actually in a user's best interest to allow the data to be shared. Otherwise doctors will see ads about vaping and fishers will see ads about the latest JavaScript IDEs. Which is why I asked, what exactly is being shared by WhatsApp? I honestly don't give a shit about Facebook knowing my gender, age, the city I'm from, etc. I'm 34, male, living in New York. Now what? In contrast, if WhatsApp shares your messages and files with third-party companies, then that's for sure a shady shit that affect your security. A whole separate conversation.

anoncake 6y ago

> Just curious, what exactly are you trying to hide? That's none of your business.

fsflover 6y ago

> what exactly are you trying to hide? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25416123 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25416123