7 ms·

A coup requires that power is taken illegally (usually violently), and held. Are you saying this rabble of idiots were intending to take power somehow (what pow

by esja 6y ago

A coup requires that power is taken illegally (usually violently), and held. Are you saying this rabble of idiots were intending to take power somehow (what power?), just by occupying a building? How could this have ended with them (or even Trump) in power?

cycrutchfield 6y ago
Did you conveniently ignore that some of the folks who broke into the capitol were armed with spears, clubs and firearms, carrying ziptie handcuffs? If the capitol police were not able to secure the escape of the senators and representatives, what do you imagine might have happened when the mob descended upon them?
- djsumdog 6y ago
  Did you conveniently ignore the part that the Capitol Police, one of the most well armed and well funded police forces in the US, are either terrible incompetent and couldn't protect one of the most important buildings in the US. Or did you ignore the videos of them removing barriers, or Trump supporters yelling at people breaking glass to stop, or protestors getting selfies with the guards in the building and tapping them on the shoulder and thanking them for their service?
  - lovecg 6y ago
    I don’t know where you’re getting your information from, but there’s at least one video of protesters violently removing the barriers https://mobile.twitter.com/elijahschaffer/status/1346966514990149639 https://mobile.twitter.com/elijahschaffer/status/13469665149... This is a good list as well https://www.reddit.com/r/Keep_Track/comments/ks56rh/trump_riot_list_of_acts_of_violence_and_calls_to/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Keep_Track/comments/ks56rh/trump_ri...
    - djsumdog 6y ago
      Here's one video: https://noagendasocial.com/@cgarison/105517331411076930 https://noagendasocial.com/@cgarison/105517331411076930 There was also one on Steve Bannon's War Room too this morning towards the end. There are multiple ones if you just search of the Capitol police literally waving people in.
      - djsumdog 6y ago
        oh and here is a video of Trump supporter stopping a vandal: https://freespeechextremist.com/media/d5a1870d-1c9d-45a9-be29-c43a9d104529/IoyZ7lCJSgerYbsM.mp4 https://freespeechextremist.com/media/d5a1870d-1c9d-45a9-be2...
        lovecg 6y ago
        The links don’t open for me, sorry. I’ve seen the first video judging by the thumbnail; it shows a cop waving to someone offscreen. Other cops maybe? Given that we have plenty of video of police being attacked I’ll need stronger evidence for the “cops waved them through” theory.
        cycrutchfield 6y ago
        Occam's Razor suggests that the cop was gesturing to other cops on the line that they were retreating from their position and falling back. To suggest otherwise strains credulity and would require much more substantial proof.
        lovecg 6y ago
        That sounds plausible. Police do not calmly wave rioters through in one area while their colleagues are getting beat up elsewhere. Once us vs. them mentality settles in it’s game over.
      - cycrutchfield 6y ago
        >Steve Bannon's War Room Oh my, surely an unbiased source. Why not inform us what Alex Jones is saying as well?
  - cycrutchfield 6y ago
    None of that is relevant to my point above.
- esja 6y ago
  Are you saying their plan was to attack those senators and representatives, in order to gain and keep power? What evidence do you have for this?
  - joshuamorton 6y ago
    Well yes: the point was to delay or prevent certification oof Biden as president, with the aim of keeping Trump in power. What other reason for the attack do you imagine there was?
  - cycrutchfield 6y ago
    Don’t spend much time on parler do you?
    - esja 6y ago
      No, but I would need to see evidence, not just your opinion that such evidence exists. Same as for electoral fraud.
zmmmmm 6y ago
> Are you saying this rabble of idiots were intending to take power somehow (what power?) Trump told them he won the election. He told them it was fraudulently stolen from them. He told them that this could be rectified by interfering in the proceedings. His intent was to take and retain power by remaining president through intimidating congress into refusing to count the electoral college votes. So yes - they were intending to take power. The fact it was based on a made up fantasy with no basis in reality does not alter the intent of either the rabble or Trump who incited them and painted that reality for them.
- esja 6y ago
  I have heard this theory stated, but where is the actual evidence that this was the plan and their actions were aligned to that? So far I've only seen people asserting that this was the plan, rather than showing actual evidence linking these things together. It's easy to join dots that don't exist, just as the Trump people seem to have done with electoral fraud.
nobody9999 6y ago
>A coup requires that power is taken illegally (usually violently), and held I (obviously) can't know what was in the minds of the folks who broke into the Capitol. However, multiple news reports detail that a number of the folks arrested were carrying police-restraint style cable ties, firearms and explosives. Given that both the Vice-president and the Speaker of the House (#2 and #3 in line of succession to the presidency), as well as both houses of Congress were in the Capitol at that moment, it's fair to ask who those folks intended to restrain with those cable ties? And once they were restrained, what would they do with those restrained people? Again, I can't say what was in the minds of the folks who attempted to occupy the US Capitol building, but some certainly brought weapons and tools indicating that they wanted to take hostages and possibly harm/kill them. Do you usually bring molotov cocktails and police-style plastic restraints when you go sightseeing? Out to dinner, maybe? Or even to a protest rally? While the protestors didn't storm the Capitol or bring tools to restrain people and destroy property, some segment of the rioters/insurrectionists did so. As I mentioned, taking hostage and murdering the Vice President, the Speaker of the House and perhaps many members of Congress probably wouldn't have destroyed our government, but it certainly could be considered a coup attempt and definitely would be insurrection.

by esja 6y ago

cycrutchfield 6y ago

Did you conveniently ignore that some of the folks who broke into the capitol were armed with spears, clubs and firearms, carrying ziptie handcuffs? If the capitol police were not able to secure the escape of the senators and representatives, what do you imagine might have happened when the mob descended upon them?

djsumdog 6y ago
Did you conveniently ignore the part that the Capitol Police, one of the most well armed and well funded police forces in the US, are either terrible incompetent and couldn't protect one of the most important buildings in the US. Or did you ignore the videos of them removing barriers, or Trump supporters yelling at people breaking glass to stop, or protestors getting selfies with the guards in the building and tapping them on the shoulder and thanking them for their service?
- lovecg 6y ago
  I don’t know where you’re getting your information from, but there’s at least one video of protesters violently removing the barriers https://mobile.twitter.com/elijahschaffer/status/1346966514990149639 https://mobile.twitter.com/elijahschaffer/status/13469665149... This is a good list as well https://www.reddit.com/r/Keep_Track/comments/ks56rh/trump_riot_list_of_acts_of_violence_and_calls_to/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Keep_Track/comments/ks56rh/trump_ri...
  - djsumdog 6y ago
    Here's one video: https://noagendasocial.com/@cgarison/105517331411076930 https://noagendasocial.com/@cgarison/105517331411076930 There was also one on Steve Bannon's War Room too this morning towards the end. There are multiple ones if you just search of the Capitol police literally waving people in.
    - djsumdog 6y ago
      oh and here is a video of Trump supporter stopping a vandal: https://freespeechextremist.com/media/d5a1870d-1c9d-45a9-be29-c43a9d104529/IoyZ7lCJSgerYbsM.mp4 https://freespeechextremist.com/media/d5a1870d-1c9d-45a9-be2...
      - lovecg 6y ago
        The links don’t open for me, sorry. I’ve seen the first video judging by the thumbnail; it shows a cop waving to someone offscreen. Other cops maybe? Given that we have plenty of video of police being attacked I’ll need stronger evidence for the “cops waved them through” theory.
        cycrutchfield 6y ago
        Occam's Razor suggests that the cop was gesturing to other cops on the line that they were retreating from their position and falling back. To suggest otherwise strains credulity and would require much more substantial proof.
        lovecg 6y ago
        That sounds plausible. Police do not calmly wave rioters through in one area while their colleagues are getting beat up elsewhere. Once us vs. them mentality settles in it’s game over.
    - cycrutchfield 6y ago
      >Steve Bannon's War Room Oh my, surely an unbiased source. Why not inform us what Alex Jones is saying as well?
- cycrutchfield 6y ago
  None of that is relevant to my point above.
esja 6y ago
Are you saying their plan was to attack those senators and representatives, in order to gain and keep power? What evidence do you have for this?
- joshuamorton 6y ago
  Well yes: the point was to delay or prevent certification oof Biden as president, with the aim of keeping Trump in power. What other reason for the attack do you imagine there was?
- cycrutchfield 6y ago
  Don’t spend much time on parler do you?
  - esja 6y ago
    No, but I would need to see evidence, not just your opinion that such evidence exists. Same as for electoral fraud.

zmmmmm 6y ago

> Are you saying this rabble of idiots were intending to take power somehow (what power?) Trump told them he won the election. He told them it was fraudulently stolen from them. He told them that this could be rectified by interfering in the proceedings. His intent was to take and retain power by remaining president through intimidating congress into refusing to count the electoral college votes. So yes - they were intending to take power. The fact it was based on a made up fantasy with no basis in reality does not alter the intent of either the rabble or Trump who incited them and painted that reality for them.

esja 6y ago
I have heard this theory stated, but where is the actual evidence that this was the plan and their actions were aligned to that? So far I've only seen people asserting that this was the plan, rather than showing actual evidence linking these things together. It's easy to join dots that don't exist, just as the Trump people seem to have done with electoral fraud.

nobody9999 6y ago

>A coup requires that power is taken illegally (usually violently), and held I (obviously) can't know what was in the minds of the folks who broke into the Capitol. However, multiple news reports detail that a number of the folks arrested were carrying police-restraint style cable ties, firearms and explosives. Given that both the Vice-president and the Speaker of the House (#2 and #3 in line of succession to the presidency), as well as both houses of Congress were in the Capitol at that moment, it's fair to ask who those folks intended to restrain with those cable ties? And once they were restrained, what would they do with those restrained people? Again, I can't say what was in the minds of the folks who attempted to occupy the US Capitol building, but some certainly brought weapons and tools indicating that they wanted to take hostages and possibly harm/kill them. Do you usually bring molotov cocktails and police-style plastic restraints when you go sightseeing? Out to dinner, maybe? Or even to a protest rally? While the protestors didn't storm the Capitol or bring tools to restrain people and destroy property, some segment of the rioters/insurrectionists did so. As I mentioned, taking hostage and murdering the Vice President, the Speaker of the House and perhaps many members of Congress probably wouldn't have destroyed our government, but it certainly could be considered a coup attempt and definitely would be insurrection.