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> 2. immigrant children in cages Who built the cages? https://lmddgtfy.net/?q=who%20built%20cages%20for%20children https://lmddgtfy.net/?q=who%20built%20cages%

> 2. immigrant children in cages Who built the cages? https://lmddgtfy.net/?q=who%20built%20cages%20for%20children https://lmddgtfy.net/?q=who%20built%20cages%20for%20children You’re making https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25673162 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25673162 ’s point.

dragonwriter 6y ago
> Who built the cages? Who cares? There’s all kinds of less-objectionable potential uses of the cages than the ones to which the Trump Administration has put them. Building them isn’t the problem.
- boogies 6y ago
  > There’s all kinds of less-objectionable potential uses of the cages than the ones to which the Trump Administration has put them. They were built to keep children separate from each other (gender segregated) and from adults: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/08/26/fact-check-obama-administration-built-migrant-cages-meme-true/3413683001/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/08/26/fac...
  - dragonwriter 6y ago
    Yes, and doing that for a smaller number of people that are transitionally detained after taking steps to minimize their use by minimizing detaining children in the first place (e.g., a policy of not doing custodial detainment of adults accompanying children whose only apparent offense is illegal crossing so that the court-mandated separate detention of children isn't an issue versus deliberately adopting a policy of maximum family separation with the overt motivation of using the associated suffering as a deterrent and punishment.)
- throwaways885 6y ago
  No, GP means, literally, who put the cage policy in place. It was not the Trump administration. People are only cross about this because it's Trump.
  - dragonwriter 6y ago
    > No, GP means, literally, who put the cage policy in place. It was not the Trump administration. The policy of deliberately maximizing use of the cages by maximizing family separation and using the induced psychic harm as a deterrent is a policy adopted by the Trump Administration. The policy of requiring segregated detention of children, when actually detained, which caused the cages to be necessary was a judicially-imposed policy. The policy of minimizing detention of children so as to minimize the use of the cages, including not detaining adults accompanying children without reason beyond illegal crossing, was a direct response to that judicially-imposed policy by the Obama Administration that was abandoned by the Trump Administration. So, if one is using “built the cages” with the peculiar meaning you suggest of “adopted the policy for their use that is the subject of the objections”, Trump “built the cages”.
    - thrwaway2day 6y ago
      Here is a photo of children put in cages during the Obama admin[0] by Donald Trump. [0]https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2018/06/18/ap_18168855174108_wide-cae44ccca2db295cfd3fb446652a82d7c80a0bd6-s800-c85.jpg https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2018/06/18/ap_1816885517410...
makomk 6y ago
Not just that, people who should've known better kept on using photos of kids in cages that were literally taken under the Obama administration to insist that Trump was uniquely evil, including members of Congress and mainstream publications, even months (maybe years?) after the fact they were from the Obama era was firmly established. Not just that either. For example, the fricking Associated Press ran an investigative piece about immigrant kids being handed over to forced labour traffickers that was 100% open about the fact its purpose was to attack Trump's immigration policies, even though if you looked at the dates every incident it described happened under Obama. That didn't stop everyone on social media interpreting it in the intended fashion.
- tomp 6y ago
  Do you have a link to AP story? Genuinely curious to read it
  - boogies 6y ago
    Ditto. I looked and found this short 2017 story by the AP about laborers hidden on property “since mid-2015”, but it doesn’t mention their age. https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-forced-labor-20170830-story.html https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-forced-labor-20... (disable JavaScript to disable paywall)
  - sampo 6y ago
    https://www.google.com/search?q=Associated+Press+children+cages https://www.google.com/search?q=Associated+Press+children+ca...
runarberg 6y ago
While I agree that any president of the USA is basically a baddie Trump really blows the scale. Yes we should be talking about the draconian immigration policies under Obama, and we should be talking about Biden’s support for the war on drugs, and we should be talking about drone killings under the Democrats. But that doesn’t mean Trump is not all that and worse. Yes it is bad that children were arrested under Obama. Obama should absolutely have to answer to those crimes. But so should Trump. In addition Trump also needs to answer for the child separation (not done under Obama). Yes, Obama needs to answer for war crimes and extrajudicial killings, but so should Trump, and in addition Trump needs to answer to toxic rhetoric, inciting racism, inciting racism, inciting people not to follow public health protocols, etc.

dragonwriter 6y ago

> Who built the cages? Who cares? There’s all kinds of less-objectionable potential uses of the cages than the ones to which the Trump Administration has put them. Building them isn’t the problem.

boogies 6y ago
> There’s all kinds of less-objectionable potential uses of the cages than the ones to which the Trump Administration has put them. They were built to keep children separate from each other (gender segregated) and from adults: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/08/26/fact-check-obama-administration-built-migrant-cages-meme-true/3413683001/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/08/26/fac...
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  Yes, and doing that for a smaller number of people that are transitionally detained after taking steps to minimize their use by minimizing detaining children in the first place (e.g., a policy of not doing custodial detainment of adults accompanying children whose only apparent offense is illegal crossing so that the court-mandated separate detention of children isn't an issue versus deliberately adopting a policy of maximum family separation with the overt motivation of using the associated suffering as a deterrent and punishment.)
throwaways885 6y ago
No, GP means, literally, who put the cage policy in place. It was not the Trump administration. People are only cross about this because it's Trump.
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  > No, GP means, literally, who put the cage policy in place. It was not the Trump administration. The policy of deliberately maximizing use of the cages by maximizing family separation and using the induced psychic harm as a deterrent is a policy adopted by the Trump Administration. The policy of requiring segregated detention of children, when actually detained, which caused the cages to be necessary was a judicially-imposed policy. The policy of minimizing detention of children so as to minimize the use of the cages, including not detaining adults accompanying children without reason beyond illegal crossing, was a direct response to that judicially-imposed policy by the Obama Administration that was abandoned by the Trump Administration. So, if one is using “built the cages” with the peculiar meaning you suggest of “adopted the policy for their use that is the subject of the objections”, Trump “built the cages”.
  - thrwaway2day 6y ago
    Here is a photo of children put in cages during the Obama admin[0] by Donald Trump. [0]https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2018/06/18/ap_18168855174108_wide-cae44ccca2db295cfd3fb446652a82d7c80a0bd6-s800-c85.jpg https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2018/06/18/ap_1816885517410...

makomk 6y ago

Not just that, people who should've known better kept on using photos of kids in cages that were literally taken under the Obama administration to insist that Trump was uniquely evil, including members of Congress and mainstream publications, even months (maybe years?) after the fact they were from the Obama era was firmly established. Not just that either. For example, the fricking Associated Press ran an investigative piece about immigrant kids being handed over to forced labour traffickers that was 100% open about the fact its purpose was to attack Trump's immigration policies, even though if you looked at the dates every incident it described happened under Obama. That didn't stop everyone on social media interpreting it in the intended fashion.

tomp 6y ago
Do you have a link to AP story? Genuinely curious to read it
- boogies 6y ago
  Ditto. I looked and found this short 2017 story by the AP about laborers hidden on property “since mid-2015”, but it doesn’t mention their age. https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-forced-labor-20170830-story.html https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-forced-labor-20... (disable JavaScript to disable paywall)
- sampo 6y ago
  https://www.google.com/search?q=Associated+Press+children+cages https://www.google.com/search?q=Associated+Press+children+ca...

runarberg 6y ago

While I agree that any president of the USA is basically a baddie Trump really blows the scale. Yes we should be talking about the draconian immigration policies under Obama, and we should be talking about Biden’s support for the war on drugs, and we should be talking about drone killings under the Democrats. But that doesn’t mean Trump is not all that and worse. Yes it is bad that children were arrested under Obama. Obama should absolutely have to answer to those crimes. But so should Trump. In addition Trump also needs to answer for the child separation (not done under Obama). Yes, Obama needs to answer for war crimes and extrajudicial killings, but so should Trump, and in addition Trump needs to answer to toxic rhetoric, inciting racism, inciting racism, inciting people not to follow public health protocols, etc.