5 ms·

Nintendo isn't a perfect company by any means. But the are the only console/gaming company that keeps thinking outside the box. Sony and MS: let's build a gami

Nintendo isn't a perfect company by any means. But the are the only console/gaming company that keeps thinking outside the box. Sony and MS: let's build a gaming PC and just have a different enclosure for it. Nintendo: what if we try <any number of crazy and interesting ideas>. Also: a few days ago a friend of mine got stuck with shitty mobile internet for e few days. The only gadget that by default assumed there's no internet and just kept on working with no problems was Nintendo Switch. Everything else (phones, consoles, readers etc.) just couldn't imagine a world without an internet connection and would suffer when connectivity was bad/intermittent.

silicon2401 6y ago
The internet dependency angle is a good point to bring up, and incidentally it's why I've gotten into data hoarding or purchasing products that don't require the internet. Like you said, I can use my Switch or even my Kindle without any problem. I also play most games via emulation or buy them from GOG, which gives you completely DRM-free downloads, making it possible to just boot up a game like the old days. I do have game pass, and the experience has been a constant reminder for why I hate a lot about the modern gaming world (with the exception of Switch, like you said). Often times when I just want to sit down and play a game, I instead have to jump through a series of hoops: download xbox update > update xbox > download game update > update game. For added fun, once in a while you even have to update your controller. Meanwhile I've never updated a switch game and always have a pleasantly plug and play experience.
tastyfreeze 6y ago
Nintendo is also the only one of the bunch selling their hardware for profit. MS and Sony now have to maintain selling hardware at a loss to keep up the perception of advancement.
- claytonjy 6y ago
  As I recall this has been true of at least MS and Sony (maybe even Nintendo?) for several console generations, though after a few years they've been able to bring costs down into profitability. Is that not expected for this generation?
  - tastyfreeze 6y ago
    As far as I know Nintendo hasn't ever sold hardware at a loss. That is not the way they do business. Of course there wont be a source from MS or Sony on the matter. https://www.cinemablend.com/games/1644500/how-much-money-nintendo-may-be-making-off-each-switch-console https://www.cinemablend.com/games/1644500/how-much-money-nin... https://metro.co.uk/2020/09/10/xbox-series-x-and-xbox-series-s-being-sold-at-loss-claims-source-13251850/ https://metro.co.uk/2020/09/10/xbox-series-x-and-xbox-series... PS Nothing really wrong with a loss leader to draw customers. The problem with the console being a loss leader is MS and Sony have to perpetually build consoles that are loss leaders to show "advancement" that keeps customers. It also makes them reliant on subscriptions and software sales to maintain profitability. So, they are incentivized to lock customers in or they will lose profitability.
city41 6y ago
It's a double edged sword though. The gimmicks Nintendo comes up with can make their games not as good as they otherwise would have been. The Wii motion control for Zelda sword attacks and the touch screen levels in Super Mario 3D World come to mind. Also all of Nintendo's mobile games require an internet connection to play. Just playing devil's advocate. I am a huge Nintendo fan.
- majewsky 6y ago
  > the touch screen levels in Super Mario 3D World Hey, now, those are vital to the jumpless challenge run: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahyd-tw2s0Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahyd-tw2s0Q
dvfjsdhgfv 6y ago
> Nintendo: what if we try <any number of crazy and interesting ideas>. I've just discovered Warioware Smooth Moves and man, was it fun! A great way to spend time with friends in these sad times.
topkai22 6y ago
Microsoft presented a pretty fairly innovative vision of what a “game” console could be with the original Xbox One launch announcement. It was a complete debacle. I’m also pretty impressed with XBox game pass- it has changed my relationship with gaming. I’ve been gaming with my XBox than my Switch because its reduced the friction of accessing high quality console games, and I’ve been trying more indie games because they are just there. Not the sort of hardware innovation you are talking about, nor is Microsoft a first mover in the game subscription space, but still important I think. Disclaimer- I’m a Microsoft employee, but not working on anything near gaming, and my opinions are my own.
recursive 6y ago
Have we forgotten about Kinect so soon?
- dmitriid 6y ago
  Kinect okay, but looks like MS sort of just gave up on it. And now smartphones have it beat in terms of capabilities. So it could've become smaller, faster and more capable, but the window of opportunity passed.
  - recursive 6y ago
    They pushed it pretty hard, but people hated it. They tried for several years before scrapping it though. To my chagrin. I was excited about it. I haven't seen any phone stuff that's similar to the capabilities of kinect. VR is the closest thing in the current crop that I can see.
    - dmitriid 6y ago
      Phones can detec motion, objects, faces and quite easily and surrisingly reliable considering how small their cameras are. Kinect could probably be great, but alas.
      - recursive 6y ago
        If you put your phone far enough away to capture your movements, I don't think you'd be able to play a game like fruit ninja. It's a different form factor.
nolok 6y ago
They also always made money, didn't sell console at a loss. Even a "failing" n64 or GameCube was net positive for Nintendo from day 1, and every year until end of service. They weren't a company in need of help. And if they joined, Microsoft is not the company that would have let them drop everything for the Wii (strange to say after the fact given kinect and stuff, but those were followers of a known success move), or again for the switch
bitwize 6y ago
> Nintendo: what if we try <any number of crazy and interesting ideas>. This is called "lateral thinking with withered technology", an engineering principle articulated by Gunpei Yokoi. In Yokoi's day, the rationale for "withered technology" was that it was cheaper and much easier to second-source, meaning that a shortage from a single supplier wouldn't hold up the production run. It wasn't until fairly recently (Wii and later) that Nintendo realized that participating in the red queen's race of ever-increasing console specs was going to get them trounced by megacorporations with much more cash to burn selling consoles at a loss, so they had to pivot to producing cheap hardware with unique value adds in order to get the console profitable fast.
anotherman554 6y ago
Sony is at least willing to invest in VR which is thinking outside the box of traditional gaming.
fomine3 6y ago
To be fair, they challenged sometimes like Kinect, PSVR but it's hard to success for optional hardware.

silicon2401 6y ago

The internet dependency angle is a good point to bring up, and incidentally it's why I've gotten into data hoarding or purchasing products that don't require the internet. Like you said, I can use my Switch or even my Kindle without any problem. I also play most games via emulation or buy them from GOG, which gives you completely DRM-free downloads, making it possible to just boot up a game like the old days. I do have game pass, and the experience has been a constant reminder for why I hate a lot about the modern gaming world (with the exception of Switch, like you said). Often times when I just want to sit down and play a game, I instead have to jump through a series of hoops: download xbox update > update xbox > download game update > update game. For added fun, once in a while you even have to update your controller. Meanwhile I've never updated a switch game and always have a pleasantly plug and play experience.

tastyfreeze 6y ago

Nintendo is also the only one of the bunch selling their hardware for profit. MS and Sony now have to maintain selling hardware at a loss to keep up the perception of advancement.

claytonjy 6y ago
As I recall this has been true of at least MS and Sony (maybe even Nintendo?) for several console generations, though after a few years they've been able to bring costs down into profitability. Is that not expected for this generation?
- tastyfreeze 6y ago
  As far as I know Nintendo hasn't ever sold hardware at a loss. That is not the way they do business. Of course there wont be a source from MS or Sony on the matter. https://www.cinemablend.com/games/1644500/how-much-money-nintendo-may-be-making-off-each-switch-console https://www.cinemablend.com/games/1644500/how-much-money-nin... https://metro.co.uk/2020/09/10/xbox-series-x-and-xbox-series-s-being-sold-at-loss-claims-source-13251850/ https://metro.co.uk/2020/09/10/xbox-series-x-and-xbox-series... PS Nothing really wrong with a loss leader to draw customers. The problem with the console being a loss leader is MS and Sony have to perpetually build consoles that are loss leaders to show "advancement" that keeps customers. It also makes them reliant on subscriptions and software sales to maintain profitability. So, they are incentivized to lock customers in or they will lose profitability.

city41 6y ago

It's a double edged sword though. The gimmicks Nintendo comes up with can make their games not as good as they otherwise would have been. The Wii motion control for Zelda sword attacks and the touch screen levels in Super Mario 3D World come to mind. Also all of Nintendo's mobile games require an internet connection to play. Just playing devil's advocate. I am a huge Nintendo fan.

majewsky 6y ago
> the touch screen levels in Super Mario 3D World Hey, now, those are vital to the jumpless challenge run: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahyd-tw2s0Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahyd-tw2s0Q

dvfjsdhgfv 6y ago

> Nintendo: what if we try <any number of crazy and interesting ideas>. I've just discovered Warioware Smooth Moves and man, was it fun! A great way to spend time with friends in these sad times.

topkai22 6y ago

Microsoft presented a pretty fairly innovative vision of what a “game” console could be with the original Xbox One launch announcement. It was a complete debacle. I’m also pretty impressed with XBox game pass- it has changed my relationship with gaming. I’ve been gaming with my XBox than my Switch because its reduced the friction of accessing high quality console games, and I’ve been trying more indie games because they are just there. Not the sort of hardware innovation you are talking about, nor is Microsoft a first mover in the game subscription space, but still important I think. Disclaimer- I’m a Microsoft employee, but not working on anything near gaming, and my opinions are my own.

recursive 6y ago

Have we forgotten about Kinect so soon?

dmitriid 6y ago
Kinect okay, but looks like MS sort of just gave up on it. And now smartphones have it beat in terms of capabilities. So it could've become smaller, faster and more capable, but the window of opportunity passed.
- recursive 6y ago
  They pushed it pretty hard, but people hated it. They tried for several years before scrapping it though. To my chagrin. I was excited about it. I haven't seen any phone stuff that's similar to the capabilities of kinect. VR is the closest thing in the current crop that I can see.
  - dmitriid 6y ago
    Phones can detec motion, objects, faces and quite easily and surrisingly reliable considering how small their cameras are. Kinect could probably be great, but alas.
    - recursive 6y ago
      If you put your phone far enough away to capture your movements, I don't think you'd be able to play a game like fruit ninja. It's a different form factor.

nolok 6y ago

They also always made money, didn't sell console at a loss. Even a "failing" n64 or GameCube was net positive for Nintendo from day 1, and every year until end of service. They weren't a company in need of help. And if they joined, Microsoft is not the company that would have let them drop everything for the Wii (strange to say after the fact given kinect and stuff, but those were followers of a known success move), or again for the switch

bitwize 6y ago

> Nintendo: what if we try <any number of crazy and interesting ideas>. This is called "lateral thinking with withered technology", an engineering principle articulated by Gunpei Yokoi. In Yokoi's day, the rationale for "withered technology" was that it was cheaper and much easier to second-source, meaning that a shortage from a single supplier wouldn't hold up the production run. It wasn't until fairly recently (Wii and later) that Nintendo realized that participating in the red queen's race of ever-increasing console specs was going to get them trounced by megacorporations with much more cash to burn selling consoles at a loss, so they had to pivot to producing cheap hardware with unique value adds in order to get the console profitable fast.

anotherman554 6y ago

Sony is at least willing to invest in VR which is thinking outside the box of traditional gaming.

fomine3 6y ago

To be fair, they challenged sometimes like Kinect, PSVR but it's hard to success for optional hardware.