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Ah that's a bummer really. I am just kinda skeptical of centralized services. Relying on the benevolence of a single party for your communication is risky. E:

by as1mov 6y ago

Ah that's a bummer really. I am just kinda skeptical of centralized services. Relying on the benevolence of a single party for your communication is risky. E: This probably goes for all the chat services which are even mildly popular (WhatsApp, Telegram, Signal, Threema etc.). Matrix seems to be an exception.

Mediterraneo10 6y ago
Signal’s founder Moxie Marlinspike is famously anti-federation. His argument is that communication will break down as some clients implement some features, while other clients don't. Your client has no guarantees that the client on the other end will understand what it sends. Moxie points to the chaotic state of XMPP clients and servers as an example of this. So, he calls for a single client connecting to a single server where everyone agrees on what functionality is present.
- GekkePrutser 6y ago
  Yeah this is my main beef with Signal. I don't want to end up in yet another walled garden. I see much more benefit to the open standard approach that made the internet great. Matrix is where it's at for me.
  - 1_player 6y ago
    Why he thinks centralisation is best: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nj3YFprqAr8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nj3YFprqAr8 (Title: 36C3 - The ecosystem is moving) To me, it's a sound argument and he's convinced me. Fighting the status quo by constantly improving in a short amount of time is incompatible with decentralisation. It's the same reason e-mail hasn't been able to change and improve, or encrypted email still isn't practical, but I'll leave the meat of the argument to that video.
    - kixiQu 6y ago
      Well, if we're sharing their arguments, this was Matrix's response: https://matrix.org/blog/2020/01/02/on-privacy-versus-freedom https://matrix.org/blog/2020/01/02/on-privacy-versus-freedom
mainstreemm 6y ago
Matrix states that they are an exception but the standard and the implementation-reference clients are all under the control of New Vector LLC, almost everyone uses the centralized identity server run by New Vector, and by far the largest homeserver is the public one also run by New Vector and so they aren't really any different. The difference is all marketing. The "Matrix protocol standard" would be more honestly called the Synapse API. All of the risks that apply to OWS/Signal due to its architecture and corporate ownership structure apply to New Vector/Matrix as well.
upofadown 6y ago
Then don't forget about the federated XMPP which is probably more popular than Matrix.

by as1mov 6y ago

Mediterraneo10 6y ago

Signal’s founder Moxie Marlinspike is famously anti-federation. His argument is that communication will break down as some clients implement some features, while other clients don't. Your client has no guarantees that the client on the other end will understand what it sends. Moxie points to the chaotic state of XMPP clients and servers as an example of this. So, he calls for a single client connecting to a single server where everyone agrees on what functionality is present.

GekkePrutser 6y ago
Yeah this is my main beef with Signal. I don't want to end up in yet another walled garden. I see much more benefit to the open standard approach that made the internet great. Matrix is where it's at for me.
- 1_player 6y ago
  Why he thinks centralisation is best: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nj3YFprqAr8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nj3YFprqAr8 (Title: 36C3 - The ecosystem is moving) To me, it's a sound argument and he's convinced me. Fighting the status quo by constantly improving in a short amount of time is incompatible with decentralisation. It's the same reason e-mail hasn't been able to change and improve, or encrypted email still isn't practical, but I'll leave the meat of the argument to that video.
  - kixiQu 6y ago
    Well, if we're sharing their arguments, this was Matrix's response: https://matrix.org/blog/2020/01/02/on-privacy-versus-freedom https://matrix.org/blog/2020/01/02/on-privacy-versus-freedom

mainstreemm 6y ago

Matrix states that they are an exception but the standard and the implementation-reference clients are all under the control of New Vector LLC, almost everyone uses the centralized identity server run by New Vector, and by far the largest homeserver is the public one also run by New Vector and so they aren't really any different. The difference is all marketing. The "Matrix protocol standard" would be more honestly called the Synapse API. All of the risks that apply to OWS/Signal due to its architecture and corporate ownership structure apply to New Vector/Matrix as well.

upofadown 6y ago

Then don't forget about the federated XMPP which is probably more popular than Matrix.