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Are there any other HN folks out there who are confused by this? If I recall watching it, he asked everyone to go home and peacefully. It seems the real issue

Are there any other HN folks out there who are confused by this? If I recall watching it, he asked everyone to go home and peacefully. It seems the real issue is he won’t accept fraud didn’t happen and people are conflating that with calls to violence. Doesn’t feel genuine or real. There has to be people reading this thinking WTF too.

evilturnip 6y ago
I agree, I'm confused. He's urging against violence, but standing by his claims of fraud. But people are claiming that's not what he's "really" saying. OK.. so I can basically say the same thing about anyone saying anything. Who decides what he "really" means? Just so I won't be downvoted, I'm not a fan of Trump.
- ttesttom 6y ago
  I think the point is that after his supporters broke the law and stormed the capitol, interrupting a constitutionally mandated process for the peaceful transfer of power, he told them: > "Remember this day forever!" Thus approving of the actions that already occurred and telling them that the crimes that they committed would be justified by history looking back at what they have done. It in no way deescalates the risk of future conflicts.
  - evilturnip 6y ago
    That's honestly just an interpretation of it. He could just mean "remember this day of protest against the establishment". Everyone just reads everything he says with their own biases. I don't think that's inherently wrong, just let's not ban people based on our own biases. All of the intepretations of the events that happened yesterday could be equally uncharitably interpreted of BLM with the riots, violence, and protests across the country. I mean, they forcefully took over an entire city zone at one point.
    - ttesttom 6y ago
      Well that is the cleverness of most trump statements, toe the line, give a nod to your side, but also retain deniability. If you don't start interpreting, you get into a trap in which you will be outfoxed by anyone who can toe lines enough to not blatantly incriminate themselves. As for BLM, personally I was never very sympathetic to the portions of protests/riots that caused violence.
      - moate 6y ago
        Dog whistles work because they proved the fig leaf of plausible deniability. Trump's presidency has been a series of dog whistles. Why would it have stopped just because he lost an election?
- mindslight 6y ago
  We've had a full two months for election irregularities to be litigated in the courts, and scrutinized in the court of public opinion. The only results that bubbled to the top were the same oft-repeated grand claims, without much of anything backing them up. If there were substantive arguments to be made, Trump's legal team has failed to present them. At this point two months later, the "fraud" narrative is nothing more than a rallying cry. So yes, continuing to push the fake fraud claim is direct incitement of that mob.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
neogodless 6y ago
Why were Trump's supporters protesting? Why did they shove police officers and tear down barricades, break windows and smash doors? Why did they illegally enter government buildings? The answer to all of these is a mistaken belief that the election was not legitimate, due to President Trump's claims without evidence that there was widespread fraud. Their actions were made believing that the election was being stolen. Their actions were justified by that belief. You cannot reinforce the reasons why they are there with any genuine belief that it will inspire peace and retreat!
- stefantalpalaru 6y ago
  > a mistaken belief that the election was not legitimate, due to President Trump's claims without evidence that there was widespread fraud "This study applies Benford’s law to detect anomalies in county-level vote data for the 2020 US presidential election. Most prominent distribution violations are observed with Republican vote counts in blue states, all vote counts in states won by the Democratic candidate, and Democratic vote counts in swing states. Distributions are anomalous in swing states won by the Democratic nominee and not anomalous in swing states won by the Republican nominee." - https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3728626 https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3728626
Atlas-Marbles 6y ago
You're the not only one. He was using simple persuasion to encourage them to go home peacefully. "I understand why you're unhappy but it's time to return home peacefully" is much more persuasive than "You are flat out wrong and it's time to return home peacefully". It's negotiation 101: validate the other's feelings if you want to persuade, even if you don't agree with those feelings.

evilturnip 6y ago

I agree, I'm confused. He's urging against violence, but standing by his claims of fraud. But people are claiming that's not what he's "really" saying. OK.. so I can basically say the same thing about anyone saying anything. Who decides what he "really" means? Just so I won't be downvoted, I'm not a fan of Trump.

ttesttom 6y ago
I think the point is that after his supporters broke the law and stormed the capitol, interrupting a constitutionally mandated process for the peaceful transfer of power, he told them: > "Remember this day forever!" Thus approving of the actions that already occurred and telling them that the crimes that they committed would be justified by history looking back at what they have done. It in no way deescalates the risk of future conflicts.
- evilturnip 6y ago
  That's honestly just an interpretation of it. He could just mean "remember this day of protest against the establishment". Everyone just reads everything he says with their own biases. I don't think that's inherently wrong, just let's not ban people based on our own biases. All of the intepretations of the events that happened yesterday could be equally uncharitably interpreted of BLM with the riots, violence, and protests across the country. I mean, they forcefully took over an entire city zone at one point.
  - ttesttom 6y ago
    Well that is the cleverness of most trump statements, toe the line, give a nod to your side, but also retain deniability. If you don't start interpreting, you get into a trap in which you will be outfoxed by anyone who can toe lines enough to not blatantly incriminate themselves. As for BLM, personally I was never very sympathetic to the portions of protests/riots that caused violence.
    - moate 6y ago
      Dog whistles work because they proved the fig leaf of plausible deniability. Trump's presidency has been a series of dog whistles. Why would it have stopped just because he lost an election?
mindslight 6y ago
We've had a full two months for election irregularities to be litigated in the courts, and scrutinized in the court of public opinion. The only results that bubbled to the top were the same oft-repeated grand claims, without much of anything backing them up. If there were substantive arguments to be made, Trump's legal team has failed to present them. At this point two months later, the "fraud" narrative is nothing more than a rallying cry. So yes, continuing to push the fake fraud claim is direct incitement of that mob.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

neogodless 6y ago

Why were Trump's supporters protesting? Why did they shove police officers and tear down barricades, break windows and smash doors? Why did they illegally enter government buildings? The answer to all of these is a mistaken belief that the election was not legitimate, due to President Trump's claims without evidence that there was widespread fraud. Their actions were made believing that the election was being stolen. Their actions were justified by that belief. You cannot reinforce the reasons why they are there with any genuine belief that it will inspire peace and retreat!

stefantalpalaru 6y ago
> a mistaken belief that the election was not legitimate, due to President Trump's claims without evidence that there was widespread fraud "This study applies Benford’s law to detect anomalies in county-level vote data for the 2020 US presidential election. Most prominent distribution violations are observed with Republican vote counts in blue states, all vote counts in states won by the Democratic candidate, and Democratic vote counts in swing states. Distributions are anomalous in swing states won by the Democratic nominee and not anomalous in swing states won by the Republican nominee." - https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3728626 https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3728626

Atlas-Marbles 6y ago

You're the not only one. He was using simple persuasion to encourage them to go home peacefully. "I understand why you're unhappy but it's time to return home peacefully" is much more persuasive than "You are flat out wrong and it's time to return home peacefully". It's negotiation 101: validate the other's feelings if you want to persuade, even if you don't agree with those feelings.