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The context here is that one side is advancing frivolous claims of voter fraud, believed by millions of people, some of whom were moved by those claims to viole

The context here is that one side is advancing frivolous claims of voter fraud, believed by millions of people, some of whom were moved by those claims to violent insurrection. And in this context, you are choosing to jump into those conversations to express vague generalities and open ended speculation that can't be pinned down to any specific claims about anything in a context where a mob is looking to those exact themes to motivate their violence. There's a form of dishonesty that comes from making untrue claims about voter fraud, and there's another kind that comes from the themes you choose to emphasize to fan on the flames of false arguments while being coy about whether you personally believe them. This falls in the latter category, and this is the problem people have with your comments.

woofie11 6y ago
Well, there's a question about what will calm millions of people down: 1) Lying to them that elections are secure, and telling them to sit down and shut up 2) Taking concerns seriously and addressing them Your premise is that #1 will prevent a violence. My claim is that #2 will. You can flipped this around. We had a lot of violence and lawless behavior around BLM protests. What would have calmed people down? Telling them we didn't have racism, to go home, and shut up? Or providing a clear process to address their concerns peacefully? I think most folks on the right will move on from the Trump election if the left knocks it off with "sit down and shut up," which is coincidentally the exact language right wing commentators use. As a footnote, which concerns are valid is almost irrelevant. For this, what matters is which concerns people believe.
- syspec 6y ago
  Nothing will calm those people down. No amount of evidence will change any of those peoples minds. Especially not 10 days of "investigation" by congress who they already do not trust.
  - woofie11 6y ago
    That's exactly what the other side says about BLM. With that attitude -- that there are tens of millions of people who can't be trusted or reasoned with and need to be locked up and silenced -- civil war is inevitable. "Those people" are human beings too. You might not agree with them and they might be wrong, but they're not very different from you. They're just exposed to different culture and information.
  - throwaway316943 6y ago
    Don’t be so tribal. You’re othering a broad swath of people, most of whom are quite reasonable. Hyperbole and lack of communication and empathy are what got us into this mess in the first place. This shit comes from both sides and it has to stop.
- glenstein 6y ago
  The specific allegations about voter fraud as believed by millions are indisputably fraudulent. You are trying to equivocate between those specifically and indisputably false allegations and something completely different: a much more generalized and vaguely expressed set of concerns with election security writ large. These have nothing to do with each other and yet you are equivocating between them.

woofie11 6y ago

Well, there's a question about what will calm millions of people down: 1) Lying to them that elections are secure, and telling them to sit down and shut up 2) Taking concerns seriously and addressing them Your premise is that #1 will prevent a violence. My claim is that #2 will. You can flipped this around. We had a lot of violence and lawless behavior around BLM protests. What would have calmed people down? Telling them we didn't have racism, to go home, and shut up? Or providing a clear process to address their concerns peacefully? I think most folks on the right will move on from the Trump election if the left knocks it off with "sit down and shut up," which is coincidentally the exact language right wing commentators use. As a footnote, which concerns are valid is almost irrelevant. For this, what matters is which concerns people believe.

syspec 6y ago
Nothing will calm those people down. No amount of evidence will change any of those peoples minds. Especially not 10 days of "investigation" by congress who they already do not trust.
- woofie11 6y ago
  That's exactly what the other side says about BLM. With that attitude -- that there are tens of millions of people who can't be trusted or reasoned with and need to be locked up and silenced -- civil war is inevitable. "Those people" are human beings too. You might not agree with them and they might be wrong, but they're not very different from you. They're just exposed to different culture and information.
- throwaway316943 6y ago
  Don’t be so tribal. You’re othering a broad swath of people, most of whom are quite reasonable. Hyperbole and lack of communication and empathy are what got us into this mess in the first place. This shit comes from both sides and it has to stop.
glenstein 6y ago
The specific allegations about voter fraud as believed by millions are indisputably fraudulent. You are trying to equivocate between those specifically and indisputably false allegations and something completely different: a much more generalized and vaguely expressed set of concerns with election security writ large. These have nothing to do with each other and yet you are equivocating between them.