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Thankfully his approach is not the only approach - just don't use WhatsApp! I never have despite the pleadings of my friends to use it. If they can't be bother

Thankfully his approach is not the only approach - just don't use WhatsApp! I never have despite the pleadings of my friends to use it. If they can't be bothered to email or send an SMS to me or use Signal or video call via the multitude of alternative messaging services (Duo, FaceTime, Skype, Signal etc. etc.) I don't think they're that bothered about being my friend are they? If their friendship hinges on me using a specific mobile app, that's a shallow friendship.

ufmace 6y ago
There's a "social capital" thing going on here. Your friends are usually willing to make some amount of effort to talk and hang out with you, depending on how close friends you are, but there are limits to that. Nobody wants to get together with someone who insists on doing everything their way every time. Most people don't care to spend what social capital they have getting their friends to use a different messaging app. You're only burning even more social capital if you try to lecture them about things they don't care about, such as Facebook having their personal information. Particularly, this social capital is at its minimum when you're trying to develop new friendships. Good luck starting any when you refuse to use the app that everyone else in the area uses to communicate.
- 72deluxe 6y ago
  That just sounds like "everyone else is smoking, so I should start smoking too". Just because everyone else is doing it does not mean it is the right thing for you to do. In this instance, if developing friendships relies on me sending my data to some unknown person the other side of the world so that they can build graphs on my activity and follow me around just because everyone else has decided that's what they want to do, then I would choose another path. Wouldn't you? If not, please send me all your data and details of your activities, all the time. If you can trust that data to some guy you've never met in a datacenter, then why not send it to me. You've got my username - that's more than you'll ever know about the people looking at your data at Facebook.
  - FalconSensei 6y ago
    > "everyone else is smoking, so I should start smoking too" No, what they said is equivalent to "everybody is smoking but I'll annoy the hell out of them so they stop, and I'll refuse to meet them in person before they quit"
  - ufmace 6y ago
    It's an individual-level realpolitik. You (the general you) are welcome to take such a stand if you care to, but the price is that your social opportunities may be severely constrained. There might be other things about you or your life that also constrain your social opportunities, things more important than who has your data, and if that's the case, then taking such a stand may leave you rather seriously isolated. I would not "choose another path" because those things are more important to me. To be blunt, I'm not sending such data to any individual HN reader because that would have no relation at all to my practical ability to maintain friendships with people in real life.
ColinWright 6y ago
You may have missed the point that in Europe, many many things are organised via WhatsApp. Kids football clubs, dance clubs, parents' evenings, school closures, social club outings, ...lots of things. Other people are saying that in their countries, Health Services and bank transactions are coordinated via WhatsApp. It's not just about messaging your friends, and for many people, "opting out" of WhatsApp is not a viable path. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25669702 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25669702 [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25669600 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25669600 [3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25671117 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25671117 [4] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25671855 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25671855
- 72deluxe 6y ago
  I live in the UK. I understand that people arrange items via WhatsApp but it seems baffling to me. Why not just use email to notify people?? When you sign up to any service, they ask for an email address. They don't ask for a mobile number necessarily, and there is never a "my mobile number is on WhatsApp" checkbox. Why is the assumption of the organiser that you're on WhatsApp your concern? They have assumed you're on a certain platform, and it's their mistake. It reminds me of the tidal wave of people suddenly abandoning their own websites and instead using "Find Us On Facebook". They might as well put "Use this keyword on AOL". Facebook is not the internet, and WhatsApp is not the only communication method.
  - ColinWright 6y ago
    Perhaps it's baffling, and perhaps I agree, but one cannot deny the reality. They don't use email, they do use WhatsApp, and not using WhatsApp is effectively impossible for people in that situation.
    - 72deluxe 6y ago
      Then the reality is insanity! My mind is blown.
  - 6y ago

ufmace 6y ago

There's a "social capital" thing going on here. Your friends are usually willing to make some amount of effort to talk and hang out with you, depending on how close friends you are, but there are limits to that. Nobody wants to get together with someone who insists on doing everything their way every time. Most people don't care to spend what social capital they have getting their friends to use a different messaging app. You're only burning even more social capital if you try to lecture them about things they don't care about, such as Facebook having their personal information. Particularly, this social capital is at its minimum when you're trying to develop new friendships. Good luck starting any when you refuse to use the app that everyone else in the area uses to communicate.

72deluxe 6y ago
That just sounds like "everyone else is smoking, so I should start smoking too". Just because everyone else is doing it does not mean it is the right thing for you to do. In this instance, if developing friendships relies on me sending my data to some unknown person the other side of the world so that they can build graphs on my activity and follow me around just because everyone else has decided that's what they want to do, then I would choose another path. Wouldn't you? If not, please send me all your data and details of your activities, all the time. If you can trust that data to some guy you've never met in a datacenter, then why not send it to me. You've got my username - that's more than you'll ever know about the people looking at your data at Facebook.
- FalconSensei 6y ago
  > "everyone else is smoking, so I should start smoking too" No, what they said is equivalent to "everybody is smoking but I'll annoy the hell out of them so they stop, and I'll refuse to meet them in person before they quit"
- ufmace 6y ago
  It's an individual-level realpolitik. You (the general you) are welcome to take such a stand if you care to, but the price is that your social opportunities may be severely constrained. There might be other things about you or your life that also constrain your social opportunities, things more important than who has your data, and if that's the case, then taking such a stand may leave you rather seriously isolated. I would not "choose another path" because those things are more important to me. To be blunt, I'm not sending such data to any individual HN reader because that would have no relation at all to my practical ability to maintain friendships with people in real life.

ColinWright 6y ago

You may have missed the point that in Europe, many many things are organised via WhatsApp. Kids football clubs, dance clubs, parents' evenings, school closures, social club outings, ...lots of things. Other people are saying that in their countries, Health Services and bank transactions are coordinated via WhatsApp. It's not just about messaging your friends, and for many people, "opting out" of WhatsApp is not a viable path. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25669702 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25669702 [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25669600 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25669600 [3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25671117 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25671117 [4] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25671855 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25671855

72deluxe 6y ago
I live in the UK. I understand that people arrange items via WhatsApp but it seems baffling to me. Why not just use email to notify people?? When you sign up to any service, they ask for an email address. They don't ask for a mobile number necessarily, and there is never a "my mobile number is on WhatsApp" checkbox. Why is the assumption of the organiser that you're on WhatsApp your concern? They have assumed you're on a certain platform, and it's their mistake. It reminds me of the tidal wave of people suddenly abandoning their own websites and instead using "Find Us On Facebook". They might as well put "Use this keyword on AOL". Facebook is not the internet, and WhatsApp is not the only communication method.
- ColinWright 6y ago
  Perhaps it's baffling, and perhaps I agree, but one cannot deny the reality. They don't use email, they do use WhatsApp, and not using WhatsApp is effectively impossible for people in that situation.
  - 72deluxe 6y ago
    Then the reality is insanity! My mind is blown.
- 6y ago