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For all the nocoiners on HN (there are many) - is there a price at which you will admit bitcoin is successful? And if not, what is the reasoning behind why you

For all the nocoiners on HN (there are many) - is there a price at which you will admit bitcoin is successful? And if not, what is the reasoning behind why you will forever see bitcoin as unsuccessful? Thank you

verroq 6y ago
> For all the non-TSLA holders on HN (there are many) - is there a price at which you will admit TSLA is successful? And if not, what is the reasoning behind why you will forever see TSLA as unsuccessful? Thank you
cowpig 6y ago
Well I don't measure success in market cap, and despite my initial excitement about the crypto space, I almost universally see it as a tool for fraud, speculation, money laundering, and corruption. I see very few cases where bitcoin has done any good in the world besides transferring wealth from the uninformed to the technically savvy and/or those uninhibited by ethics. Bitcoin was created with these libertarian utopic ideals in mind, but I think it has shown that the landscape of anarcho-capitalism in practice is a nasty, brutish place.
insert_coin 6y ago
I am not a noncoiner and I do like bitcoin a lot. But there's no such thing as a success moment in currencies as they can topple just as fast. Specially something without any hard backing or even political backing as bitcoin. Bitcoin has been largely ignored by governments, but as it grows it won't be and it just takes one stroke of a pen for them to make it illegal. So, even if it gets to a trillion it'll still be a risky asset.
kitcar 6y ago
Price is set by the intersection of an ask and a bid; that the fact that a minimum of two people are willing to trade something at a specified price doesn't mean that thing is "successful", or even has value to society (i.e. fine art in private collections, POGs, Beanie Babies, etc...). Nocoiner's don't have a need for bitcoin, similar to me not having a need for fine art - it has nothing to do with what the price is set at.
belltaco 6y ago
For me the price is just people bidding it up, like the Tulip mania. So your question doesn't make any sense. What would change my opinion is if usage of bitcoin as a currency or for some other application goes very high. i.e the utility rather than just speculation by people wanting to make quick buck.
cheshireoctopus 6y ago
Like everything, depends on your definition of success. If we consider it a speculative investment, then, sure, at this point in time, BTC looks like a solid investment! BTC investments have funded a number of my vacations :D But, if we consider BTC a form of currency, I would say it is a total failure given its wild fluctuations in value. Curious what others think? Want to change my mind!
codingdave 6y ago
What would "success" even mean for a currency? I don't hear of many people actually spending it, although I'm sure some do. But it feels like it has devolved into nothing but an asset for trading, with literally nothing backing it. There will be people who find success in trading it. If it keeps getting bigger, institutional investors and governments may play. But does that make Bitcoin itself a success? Or is it just another playground for rich people to get richer?
krcz 6y ago
I wanted to write its market cap being 1% of the gold market cap. Then I checked and it looks it has already happened, and I still don't consider Bitcoin successful, just a little bit crazier. I'd consider it successful if I could pay with it in physical shops, or at least in one of major online shops (let's say Amazon).
nicbou 6y ago
I'll call bitcoin successful when I can buy a croissant with it.

verroq 6y ago

> For all the non-TSLA holders on HN (there are many) - is there a price at which you will admit TSLA is successful? And if not, what is the reasoning behind why you will forever see TSLA as unsuccessful? Thank you

cowpig 6y ago

Well I don't measure success in market cap, and despite my initial excitement about the crypto space, I almost universally see it as a tool for fraud, speculation, money laundering, and corruption. I see very few cases where bitcoin has done any good in the world besides transferring wealth from the uninformed to the technically savvy and/or those uninhibited by ethics. Bitcoin was created with these libertarian utopic ideals in mind, but I think it has shown that the landscape of anarcho-capitalism in practice is a nasty, brutish place.

insert_coin 6y ago

I am not a noncoiner and I do like bitcoin a lot. But there's no such thing as a success moment in currencies as they can topple just as fast. Specially something without any hard backing or even political backing as bitcoin. Bitcoin has been largely ignored by governments, but as it grows it won't be and it just takes one stroke of a pen for them to make it illegal. So, even if it gets to a trillion it'll still be a risky asset.

kitcar 6y ago

Price is set by the intersection of an ask and a bid; that the fact that a minimum of two people are willing to trade something at a specified price doesn't mean that thing is "successful", or even has value to society (i.e. fine art in private collections, POGs, Beanie Babies, etc...). Nocoiner's don't have a need for bitcoin, similar to me not having a need for fine art - it has nothing to do with what the price is set at.

belltaco 6y ago

For me the price is just people bidding it up, like the Tulip mania. So your question doesn't make any sense. What would change my opinion is if usage of bitcoin as a currency or for some other application goes very high. i.e the utility rather than just speculation by people wanting to make quick buck.

cheshireoctopus 6y ago

Like everything, depends on your definition of success. If we consider it a speculative investment, then, sure, at this point in time, BTC looks like a solid investment! BTC investments have funded a number of my vacations :D But, if we consider BTC a form of currency, I would say it is a total failure given its wild fluctuations in value. Curious what others think? Want to change my mind!

codingdave 6y ago

What would "success" even mean for a currency? I don't hear of many people actually spending it, although I'm sure some do. But it feels like it has devolved into nothing but an asset for trading, with literally nothing backing it. There will be people who find success in trading it. If it keeps getting bigger, institutional investors and governments may play. But does that make Bitcoin itself a success? Or is it just another playground for rich people to get richer?

krcz 6y ago

I wanted to write its market cap being 1% of the gold market cap. Then I checked and it looks it has already happened, and I still don't consider Bitcoin successful, just a little bit crazier. I'd consider it successful if I could pay with it in physical shops, or at least in one of major online shops (let's say Amazon).

nicbou 6y ago

I'll call bitcoin successful when I can buy a croissant with it.