3 ms·

I think there are many more cars on the road today, and I suspect they are more dangerous to pedestrians (new cars are generally more powerful, so tend to accel

I think there are many more cars on the road today, and I suspect they are more dangerous to pedestrians (new cars are generally more powerful, so tend to accelerate to dangerous speeds on small streets. Not to even start on smartphones).

csharptwdec19 6y ago
> new cars are generally more powerful, so tend to accelerate to dangerous speeds on small streets. Yes and no and but... Yes - Broadly speaking most new cars are more powerful than they were in the late 70s and early 80s No - Before the gas crisis we has a much larger lust for big powerful engines. But - In the last 20 years especially there has been a mandated (i.e. NHSTA/etc) effort to make vehicles 'less harmful' to pedestrians in case of an impact. You can see some of this in the changes to front fascias/bumpers.
- everdrive 6y ago
  >No - Before the gas crisis we has a much larger lust for big powerful engines. >But - In the last 20 years especially there has been a mandated (i.e. NHSTA/etc) effort to make vehicles 'less harmful' to pedestrians in case of an impact. You can see some of this in the changes to front fascias/bumpers. You hit on some of the complexity here. Cars are actually much quicker now. In the 1950s, a V8 police car made 85-150 horsepower. So, the bigger engines prior to the 70s were quite slow compared to cars today. As you note, the speed gains must be partially offset (fully?) by the advances in safety: tires, anti-lock brakes, pedestrian-friendly bumpers, and more.
  - leetcrew 6y ago
    in the 1950s, yes, but much quicker cars were available in the 60s. there were chevy caprice four-door sedans that made 425 hp and did 0-60 in around six seconds. that's not far off modern hot hatches (although I suspect the ones with 425 hp were probably less affordable at the time). it was possible to make plenty of power back then; it was mainly the weight that held those vehicles back. the specific model I'm looking at weighed 4100 lbs!
    - everdrive 6y ago
      Wow, I didn't realize the Caprice was so quick in the 60s. Thanks for letting me know.
ascagnel_ 6y ago
At least in the US, the danger from newer cars isn't more powerful engines, it's that cars are bigger and tend to weigh more than they did 50 years ago. Some of it is quality-of-life changes (AC compressors are heavy), some of it is a trade-off made for safety or crashworthiness, but a big chunk of it is because Americans have largely opted for big cars -- SUVs, pickup trucks, minivans -- to the point that the 3 major American auto manufacturers basically don't sell anything smaller than a family-size sedan[0]. [0] As someone who loves smaller hatchbacks, this really grinds my gears.
- mumblemumble 6y ago
  That represents a greater danger in vehicle-vehicle collisions, but I doubt it's anywhere near as a large an effect for vehicle-pedestrian collisions. It's possible, though, that the larger vehicles represent a greater danger due to poorer visibility. I don't have enough experience driving a contemporary truck or SUV to know the driver's experience, but I do know that, when parked along the street, they present a serious visibility problem for pedestrians compared to coupes and sedans.
- leetcrew 6y ago
  I really doubt the difference between a 1700 lb (1980 honda civic) and a 5600 lb (2020 escalade) vehicle matters that much in a collision with a pedestrian. from a conservation of momentum standpoint, the 1700 lb car already weighs so much more than a person that the additional weight from a modern SUV has little effect. either way, the vehicle plows straight through with minimal loss of velocity. the bigger issue with SUVs is the clearance; a pedestrian is much more likely to be run over by and SUV, rather than thrown over the hood of a small car.
mumblemumble 6y ago
Some numbers: since the 1970s, the number of cars per person in the USA has increased by ~50%, the number of people has increased by ~60%, and, vehicle miles traveled per capita had (previous to 2020) nearly doubled. https://www.energy.gov/eere/vehicles/fact-962-january-30-2017-vehicles-capita-other-regionscountries-compared-united-states https://www.energy.gov/eere/vehicles/fact-962-january-30-201... https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=lls https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=lls
i_haz_rabies 6y ago
There are definitely more distracted drivers.

csharptwdec19 6y ago

> new cars are generally more powerful, so tend to accelerate to dangerous speeds on small streets. Yes and no and but... Yes - Broadly speaking most new cars are more powerful than they were in the late 70s and early 80s No - Before the gas crisis we has a much larger lust for big powerful engines. But - In the last 20 years especially there has been a mandated (i.e. NHSTA/etc) effort to make vehicles 'less harmful' to pedestrians in case of an impact. You can see some of this in the changes to front fascias/bumpers.

everdrive 6y ago
>No - Before the gas crisis we has a much larger lust for big powerful engines. >But - In the last 20 years especially there has been a mandated (i.e. NHSTA/etc) effort to make vehicles 'less harmful' to pedestrians in case of an impact. You can see some of this in the changes to front fascias/bumpers. You hit on some of the complexity here. Cars are actually much quicker now. In the 1950s, a V8 police car made 85-150 horsepower. So, the bigger engines prior to the 70s were quite slow compared to cars today. As you note, the speed gains must be partially offset (fully?) by the advances in safety: tires, anti-lock brakes, pedestrian-friendly bumpers, and more.
- leetcrew 6y ago
  in the 1950s, yes, but much quicker cars were available in the 60s. there were chevy caprice four-door sedans that made 425 hp and did 0-60 in around six seconds. that's not far off modern hot hatches (although I suspect the ones with 425 hp were probably less affordable at the time). it was possible to make plenty of power back then; it was mainly the weight that held those vehicles back. the specific model I'm looking at weighed 4100 lbs!
  - everdrive 6y ago
    Wow, I didn't realize the Caprice was so quick in the 60s. Thanks for letting me know.

ascagnel_ 6y ago

At least in the US, the danger from newer cars isn't more powerful engines, it's that cars are bigger and tend to weigh more than they did 50 years ago. Some of it is quality-of-life changes (AC compressors are heavy), some of it is a trade-off made for safety or crashworthiness, but a big chunk of it is because Americans have largely opted for big cars -- SUVs, pickup trucks, minivans -- to the point that the 3 major American auto manufacturers basically don't sell anything smaller than a family-size sedan[0]. [0] As someone who loves smaller hatchbacks, this really grinds my gears.

mumblemumble 6y ago
That represents a greater danger in vehicle-vehicle collisions, but I doubt it's anywhere near as a large an effect for vehicle-pedestrian collisions. It's possible, though, that the larger vehicles represent a greater danger due to poorer visibility. I don't have enough experience driving a contemporary truck or SUV to know the driver's experience, but I do know that, when parked along the street, they present a serious visibility problem for pedestrians compared to coupes and sedans.
leetcrew 6y ago
I really doubt the difference between a 1700 lb (1980 honda civic) and a 5600 lb (2020 escalade) vehicle matters that much in a collision with a pedestrian. from a conservation of momentum standpoint, the 1700 lb car already weighs so much more than a person that the additional weight from a modern SUV has little effect. either way, the vehicle plows straight through with minimal loss of velocity. the bigger issue with SUVs is the clearance; a pedestrian is much more likely to be run over by and SUV, rather than thrown over the hood of a small car.

mumblemumble 6y ago

Some numbers: since the 1970s, the number of cars per person in the USA has increased by ~50%, the number of people has increased by ~60%, and, vehicle miles traveled per capita had (previous to 2020) nearly doubled. https://www.energy.gov/eere/vehicles/fact-962-january-30-2017-vehicles-capita-other-regionscountries-compared-united-states https://www.energy.gov/eere/vehicles/fact-962-january-30-201... https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=lls https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=lls

i_haz_rabies 6y ago

There are definitely more distracted drivers.