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>A bunch of idiots roaming the capitol building isn't a threat per se, shameful and sad yes, but not one that should've been met with violent force from a small

by antris 6y ago

>A bunch of idiots roaming the capitol building isn't a threat per se, shameful and sad yes, but not one that should've been met with violent force from a small number of capitol police at the expense of (and risk of not) evacuating the people inside. Of course, if the mob were leftists or had any significant amount of minorities mixed in, there would have been rivers of blood outside the Capitol.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
leereeves 6y ago
All evidence to the contrary. We recently saw months of protests by leftists without "rivers of blood", even when the protestors declared autonomous zones, occupied police stations, and burned down, or tried to burn down, thousands of businesses and government buildings. Where's the evidence for your hypothesis? And what's up with downvoting this entirely factual statement in favor of the unsupported theory above?
- jboog 6y ago
  Literally none of this is in any way comparable to storming the nation's capitol building to overthrow the results of an election.
  - leereeves 6y ago
    I'm not comparing the actions/crimes. I'm comparing the police response. The comment I responded to, which claimed there would "rivers of blood" if leftists tried something like this. Where's the evidence of that? And let's not forget that a protestor was killed by police yesterday.
    - PenguinCoder 6y ago
      Not a protester; A rioter and an insurrectionist.
    - jboog 6y ago
      "protestor" who was storming the capitol to overturn the election while elected officials were sheltering in the building.
- JoeAltmaier 6y ago
  Treason trumps public disorder. Obviously. No, now the Republican party is up there with the Communist party or Anarchists, as a danger to America and democracy. Republican mobs paraded racist Confederate flags through federal buildings in a violent attempt to overthrow an election. Thank god for brave Americans who stood up to harrassment and threw out baseless, evidence-free lawsuits trying to overthrow state electors. Hell, even the head of the Republican party has been recorded trying to strong-arm state election officials and fake the reporting of votes. Give it up. The Republican party is clearly more corrupt and anti-American than any other organization you can name.
  - leereeves 6y ago
    What discussion are you responding to? How does your comment relate to whether "if the mob were leftists or had any significant amount of minorities mixed in, there would have been rivers of blood outside the Capitol."?
  - wolco3 6y ago
    Hi Joe, do you have anything on topic? Perhaps reddit or twitter might be a better forum for your post.
    - JoeAltmaier 6y ago
      Oh, I thought we were talking of Republicans invading a Federal building. If I'm off-topic I apologize. And I probably vectored off too much on that one. Letting off steam. Sorry!
- antris 6y ago
  https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemimamcevoy/2020/06/08/14-days-of-protests-19-dead/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemimamcevoy/2020/06/08/14-days... 19 dead in 2 weeks, without any aggression even close to what happened yesterday. It's obvious that the death toll would be higher if BLM protestors were as aggressive as the Trump protestors yesterday.
  - leereeves 6y ago
    > without any aggression even close to what happened yesterday What? From your link: > Dave Patrick Underwood...was shot May 30 while on guard duty outside a federal courthouse in Oakland and was one of two officers targeted in a drive-by shooting amid nearby protests. > David Dorn...the retired St. Louis police captain was killed by people looting a pawn shop > [one person] was killed trying to blow up an ATM on the sidewalk. > Marvin Francois...was fatally shot after a protest in Kansas City on May 31, with police reporting his killers were three men attempting to steal his car. > a number of police officers are also recovering from injuries from shootings, stabbings, and objects thrown at them during protests. I do stand corrected. Including the violence by civilians (whether protestors, looters, rioters, or business owners), the leftist protests did lead to a lot more bloodshed. I misunderstood and thought you were talking solely about the police. Your link only identifies one as killed by police: > Jorge Gomez, 25, Las Vegas: Gomez was shot by officers during a protest that turned violent on June 1; Gomez was armed and allegedly pulled a gun at officers. And one as possibly killed by police, with no evidence: > David McAtee...was shot on the morning of June 1 as National Guard troops and local police tried to disperse crowds of protestors in Louisville...two of the officers involved in the shooting had not activated body cameras. Following up on most of the others, they were reportedly murdered by other civilians for unknown reasons. It's not even clear those deaths are related to the protests. It matters who killed those who died, and why.
    - antris 6y ago
      >Including the violence by civilians (whether we call them protestors or not), the leftist protests did lead to a lot more bloodshed. I misunderstood and thought you were talking solely about the police. I was. Most of the victims during the protests were black. You cherry picked quotes from the article to support your views. The reality is that a peaceful BLM protest was dispersed with greater violence so that the president can pose across the street with a bible, than a mob attacking and storming the Capitol.
- IfOnlyYouKnew 6y ago
  Here's 1000 examples of police violence as caught on video in 2020: https://bigthink.com/politics-current-affairs/police-brutality-videos https://bigthink.com/politics-current-affairs/police-brutali... In Austin, 16-year-old Edwin Ayala attended a protest. He stood alone on a grassy hill, about a dozen yards away from police and other protestors. As Ayala stood still, an officer on the street raised his gun and shot a bean-bag bullet at the boy's head. Ayala collapsed instantly.
  - leereeves 6y ago
    That list is just a list of incidents of police violence, not protest-related, many from before 2020, and some not even in the US. I'm not disputing whether American police are violent; we have another example from yesterday: an unarmed woman killed by police. I'm disputing the claim that the response would have been more aggressive at a leftist protest. Thousands of National Guard troops, in addition to police in riot gear, were dispersed to clear the Capitol. They did so. Less violence was required to do so, because the protestors complied.
    - dragonwriter 6y ago
      > Thousands of National Guard troops, in addition to police in riot gear, were dispersed to clear the Capitol. Were it a left wing protest, the National Guard would not have been delayed by the federal executive until after the insurrectionists had spent their energy and either failed to achieve their violent goals because the targets had escaped immediate threat, and would hace acted violently to disperse the crowd earlier, and the right-wing counter-protestors that would have been present (left-wing counter-protestors were specifically told to avoid this event by major left-leaning groups because of the risk of violence) would have been permitted by law enforcement to freely act violently against the same group targeted by LE. We know all that, because we've seen it time and again over the last year, across the US, including specifically in D.C.
      - antris 6y ago
        >Were it a left wing protest, the National Guard would not have been delayed by the federal executive If it were a left wing or minority advocate protest, the response would have been the same as with BLM protests: https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/07/us/police-response-black-lives-matter-protest-us-capitol/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/07/us/police-response-black-... The double standard is striking.

by antris 6y ago

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

leereeves 6y ago

All evidence to the contrary. We recently saw months of protests by leftists without "rivers of blood", even when the protestors declared autonomous zones, occupied police stations, and burned down, or tried to burn down, thousands of businesses and government buildings. Where's the evidence for your hypothesis? And what's up with downvoting this entirely factual statement in favor of the unsupported theory above?

jboog 6y ago
Literally none of this is in any way comparable to storming the nation's capitol building to overthrow the results of an election.
- leereeves 6y ago
  I'm not comparing the actions/crimes. I'm comparing the police response. The comment I responded to, which claimed there would "rivers of blood" if leftists tried something like this. Where's the evidence of that? And let's not forget that a protestor was killed by police yesterday.
  - PenguinCoder 6y ago
    Not a protester; A rioter and an insurrectionist.
  - jboog 6y ago
    "protestor" who was storming the capitol to overturn the election while elected officials were sheltering in the building.
JoeAltmaier 6y ago
Treason trumps public disorder. Obviously. No, now the Republican party is up there with the Communist party or Anarchists, as a danger to America and democracy. Republican mobs paraded racist Confederate flags through federal buildings in a violent attempt to overthrow an election. Thank god for brave Americans who stood up to harrassment and threw out baseless, evidence-free lawsuits trying to overthrow state electors. Hell, even the head of the Republican party has been recorded trying to strong-arm state election officials and fake the reporting of votes. Give it up. The Republican party is clearly more corrupt and anti-American than any other organization you can name.
- leereeves 6y ago
  What discussion are you responding to? How does your comment relate to whether "if the mob were leftists or had any significant amount of minorities mixed in, there would have been rivers of blood outside the Capitol."?
- wolco3 6y ago
  Hi Joe, do you have anything on topic? Perhaps reddit or twitter might be a better forum for your post.
  - JoeAltmaier 6y ago
    Oh, I thought we were talking of Republicans invading a Federal building. If I'm off-topic I apologize. And I probably vectored off too much on that one. Letting off steam. Sorry!
antris 6y ago
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemimamcevoy/2020/06/08/14-days-of-protests-19-dead/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemimamcevoy/2020/06/08/14-days... 19 dead in 2 weeks, without any aggression even close to what happened yesterday. It's obvious that the death toll would be higher if BLM protestors were as aggressive as the Trump protestors yesterday.
- leereeves 6y ago
  > without any aggression even close to what happened yesterday What? From your link: > Dave Patrick Underwood...was shot May 30 while on guard duty outside a federal courthouse in Oakland and was one of two officers targeted in a drive-by shooting amid nearby protests. > David Dorn...the retired St. Louis police captain was killed by people looting a pawn shop > [one person] was killed trying to blow up an ATM on the sidewalk. > Marvin Francois...was fatally shot after a protest in Kansas City on May 31, with police reporting his killers were three men attempting to steal his car. > a number of police officers are also recovering from injuries from shootings, stabbings, and objects thrown at them during protests. I do stand corrected. Including the violence by civilians (whether protestors, looters, rioters, or business owners), the leftist protests did lead to a lot more bloodshed. I misunderstood and thought you were talking solely about the police. Your link only identifies one as killed by police: > Jorge Gomez, 25, Las Vegas: Gomez was shot by officers during a protest that turned violent on June 1; Gomez was armed and allegedly pulled a gun at officers. And one as possibly killed by police, with no evidence: > David McAtee...was shot on the morning of June 1 as National Guard troops and local police tried to disperse crowds of protestors in Louisville...two of the officers involved in the shooting had not activated body cameras. Following up on most of the others, they were reportedly murdered by other civilians for unknown reasons. It's not even clear those deaths are related to the protests. It matters who killed those who died, and why.
  - antris 6y ago
    >Including the violence by civilians (whether we call them protestors or not), the leftist protests did lead to a lot more bloodshed. I misunderstood and thought you were talking solely about the police. I was. Most of the victims during the protests were black. You cherry picked quotes from the article to support your views. The reality is that a peaceful BLM protest was dispersed with greater violence so that the president can pose across the street with a bible, than a mob attacking and storming the Capitol.
IfOnlyYouKnew 6y ago
Here's 1000 examples of police violence as caught on video in 2020: https://bigthink.com/politics-current-affairs/police-brutality-videos https://bigthink.com/politics-current-affairs/police-brutali... In Austin, 16-year-old Edwin Ayala attended a protest. He stood alone on a grassy hill, about a dozen yards away from police and other protestors. As Ayala stood still, an officer on the street raised his gun and shot a bean-bag bullet at the boy's head. Ayala collapsed instantly.
- leereeves 6y ago
  That list is just a list of incidents of police violence, not protest-related, many from before 2020, and some not even in the US. I'm not disputing whether American police are violent; we have another example from yesterday: an unarmed woman killed by police. I'm disputing the claim that the response would have been more aggressive at a leftist protest. Thousands of National Guard troops, in addition to police in riot gear, were dispersed to clear the Capitol. They did so. Less violence was required to do so, because the protestors complied.
  - dragonwriter 6y ago
    > Thousands of National Guard troops, in addition to police in riot gear, were dispersed to clear the Capitol. Were it a left wing protest, the National Guard would not have been delayed by the federal executive until after the insurrectionists had spent their energy and either failed to achieve their violent goals because the targets had escaped immediate threat, and would hace acted violently to disperse the crowd earlier, and the right-wing counter-protestors that would have been present (left-wing counter-protestors were specifically told to avoid this event by major left-leaning groups because of the risk of violence) would have been permitted by law enforcement to freely act violently against the same group targeted by LE. We know all that, because we've seen it time and again over the last year, across the US, including specifically in D.C.
    - antris 6y ago
      >Were it a left wing protest, the National Guard would not have been delayed by the federal executive If it were a left wing or minority advocate protest, the response would have been the same as with BLM protests: https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/07/us/police-response-black-lives-matter-protest-us-capitol/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/07/us/police-response-black-... The double standard is striking.