7 ms·

The insurrectionists were there because they falsely believe the election was stolen, and half of that video was him saying "yep, you guys are correct". He's do

The insurrectionists were there because they falsely believe the election was stolen, and half of that video was him saying "yep, you guys are correct". He's done this shit before where he vigorously fans the flames but then gives a half-assed concessionary call for peace that his followers know to ignore. They were there in the first place because of his message

claw_howitzer 6y ago
Also the video wasn't the only thing removed either; the other was this tweet: > These are the things and events that happen when a sacred landslide election victory is so unceremoniously & viciously stripped away from great patriots who have been badly & unfairly treated for so long. Go home with love & in peace. Remember this day forever!
- roenxi 6y ago
  That message is self-inconsistent, but not actually that unusual. A key plank of religious tolerance is people peacefully accepting they are governed by, potentially, literal heretics. Or religious crazies in the case of the atheists. It is possible to simultaneously believe that the election results are illegitimate and to live peacefully in society. It requires a bit more mental flexibility than I like to give myself, but there is precedent. The call to action (go home with love & in peace) trumps the frame.
  - enkid 6y ago
    But that's not what he's saying. He's not making any sort of transition or explanation for why people should go home. It's clearly tacked on afterwards, and the protestors know it. Then they can blame it on "the deep state." He's sandwiching go home with two statements legitimizing what the protestors are doing.
    - jschwartzi 6y ago
      This actually shows a difference in how fascists and nationalists use words versus how the rest of us use words. For most people words are a truthful declaration of intents and ideas. But fascists often use words for a different purpose. They don't use them in their common meanings, but rather as tools to inflame and to denigrate others. Take use of the word "socialism" or "nationalism." I've seen a disturbing tendency on the right to call anything they don't like "socialist." Nothing makes that clearer than Trump's call to the Cuban expatriates in Florida to vote against the "communist" Joe Biden. If you know anything about Biden's policies you would recognize them as pretty standard Progressive policies. I have never once heard him discuss taking private property and distributing it as a public good. He's not once talked about erasing private enterprise. He is manifestly not communist. So the only conclusion I can draw is that Trump is using "communist" to mean "person you don't like" so he can fan the flames. Given that, I don't think we can take anything he says at face value. This is actually a common tendency on the right, and it's why they're so good at fanning the flames. They see what our words mean and they disregard that meaning.
    - roenxi 6y ago
      Even if you believe it to be true, starting the conversation by telling people that their opinions are illegitimate is a bad first step when asking them to do something.
IkmoIkmo 6y ago
I recall one pundit on TV saying he was taking a log off the fire while simultaneously pouring gasoline on with his messages, that was pretty apt.
vixen99 6y ago
It's good to have an assurance from you that it's falsely believed that the election was stolen. Now I'm quite clear about the facts.
- Znafon 6y ago
  Thankfully the issue has been raised to multiple courts haven't it?
- fignews 6y ago
  So what are the facts??
  - woofie11 6y ago
    The facts are we have: * electronic voting machines * credible claims of foreign interference in elections * credible claims of organized state agent hacking of US digital infrastructure. * voting machines with designs and source code which are secret, and no way to know if they're working as advertised. We have cryptographic protocols for honest, verifiable, anonymous elections, which we don't bother implementing. It's all an honor system, in a government without much honor. We, quite frankly, have no way to know if votes are being counted correctly or honestly. As much as I disbelief Trump's claims of this election being rigged by democrats, the claims that we have excellent election security are false too. We have a huge chunk of the country openly lying about election results, and another half lying about election security. Two lies don't make a truth. If our current elections aren't being manipulated, you can bet future ones will be. It's easy for an organized state agent to do, and if it wasn't being done before, it will be now. And fixing this will be almost impossible post-Trump, because Democrats.
    - AshamedCaptain 6y ago
      > We have cryptographic protocols for honest, verifiable, anonymous elections, which we don't bother implementing We do?
      - 6y ago
dandanua 6y ago
>they falsely believe the election was stolen Or they know the truth, but respect and follow the forceful power, which Trump wants to represent. Edit: I guess people misinterpret what I mean. The truth is that Biden has won honestly, but insurgents just don't respect that.
- engineeringwoke 6y ago
  It appears that the Americans woke up, mods
  - YinglingLight 6y ago
    Foreigners would be more neutrally observant, if foreigner's own Governments weren't scared shitless at the notion of their local populace starting to question the validity of their own Elections. As such, corresponding narratives are fed through their financed corporate Media.
bumbada 6y ago
You say they "falsely believe the election was stolen" like your equally radical opinion is right and they are wrong because you say so. I am not American and I don't care about Biden or Trump, but I care about democracy in general. I believe that this election has been at least suspicious, with trucks loaded with ballots disappearing, hundreds of thousands of votes suddenly going for Biden, chain of custody broken in so many places, suspicious donations for electronic voting machinery. To have a reasonable doubt is as respectable as not having it.
- javajosh 6y ago
  I very much dislike it when people see conflict and automatically assume symmetry. If someone pries open my car, pulls me out and starts beating me, and a cop comes over and sees "a fight" and arrests us both, is that fair? In the same way, you say that there are two "radical opinions" about voter fraud. This is false. There is only one radical opinion. It is similar to a flat earther claiming that schools need to "teach the controversy". No. They do not. Regarding the current conflict, there is deep asymmetry here. Trump has been claiming election fraud prior to the election since he was elected. When the election finally happened, Trump had over 60 chances to show evidence. Hefiled and lost over 60 lawsuits, including ones in front of judges he appointed, and in front of 3 supreme court justices he nominated. They all took his claims seriously, looked at them, and rejected them. These were his own appointees. That's where it should end. To continue to believe that "the election was stolen" under these circumstances is the only extreme view. Trump, and his GOP/Fox enablers, have been pushing this view as fact, and his followers have acted consistently, and violence has ensued. The violence, and the treason, falls squarely with them. And if you have any doubt that Trump's motive is about anything other than Trump wanting to keep power, then listen to that phone call to Georgia's (Republican) Secretary of State. But yes, I'm tired of hearing people say, when talking about Trump, that "both sides are bad" and "all politicians suck". No. I get the desire to avoid conflict, but those statements are simply false. Trump has broken his oath to the constitution, repeatedly and egregiously, and his misdeeds have not been matched. There is no symmetry here, there is only a traitor-in-chief and his cronies.
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
davidcollantes 6y ago
I think you meant to write "treasonous, brainwashed terrorists," instead of insurrectionists. Right?
AzzieElbab 6y ago
The people he was talking to did not need more convincing about election being stolen, they needed to be told to go home. That is what Trump did. That video alone had more historical value than 99.99999 content on Twitter.

claw_howitzer 6y ago

Also the video wasn't the only thing removed either; the other was this tweet: > These are the things and events that happen when a sacred landslide election victory is so unceremoniously & viciously stripped away from great patriots who have been badly & unfairly treated for so long. Go home with love & in peace. Remember this day forever!

roenxi 6y ago
That message is self-inconsistent, but not actually that unusual. A key plank of religious tolerance is people peacefully accepting they are governed by, potentially, literal heretics. Or religious crazies in the case of the atheists. It is possible to simultaneously believe that the election results are illegitimate and to live peacefully in society. It requires a bit more mental flexibility than I like to give myself, but there is precedent. The call to action (go home with love & in peace) trumps the frame.
- enkid 6y ago
  But that's not what he's saying. He's not making any sort of transition or explanation for why people should go home. It's clearly tacked on afterwards, and the protestors know it. Then they can blame it on "the deep state." He's sandwiching go home with two statements legitimizing what the protestors are doing.
  - jschwartzi 6y ago
    This actually shows a difference in how fascists and nationalists use words versus how the rest of us use words. For most people words are a truthful declaration of intents and ideas. But fascists often use words for a different purpose. They don't use them in their common meanings, but rather as tools to inflame and to denigrate others. Take use of the word "socialism" or "nationalism." I've seen a disturbing tendency on the right to call anything they don't like "socialist." Nothing makes that clearer than Trump's call to the Cuban expatriates in Florida to vote against the "communist" Joe Biden. If you know anything about Biden's policies you would recognize them as pretty standard Progressive policies. I have never once heard him discuss taking private property and distributing it as a public good. He's not once talked about erasing private enterprise. He is manifestly not communist. So the only conclusion I can draw is that Trump is using "communist" to mean "person you don't like" so he can fan the flames. Given that, I don't think we can take anything he says at face value. This is actually a common tendency on the right, and it's why they're so good at fanning the flames. They see what our words mean and they disregard that meaning.
  - roenxi 6y ago
    Even if you believe it to be true, starting the conversation by telling people that their opinions are illegitimate is a bad first step when asking them to do something.

IkmoIkmo 6y ago

I recall one pundit on TV saying he was taking a log off the fire while simultaneously pouring gasoline on with his messages, that was pretty apt.

vixen99 6y ago

It's good to have an assurance from you that it's falsely believed that the election was stolen. Now I'm quite clear about the facts.

Znafon 6y ago
Thankfully the issue has been raised to multiple courts haven't it?
fignews 6y ago
So what are the facts??
- woofie11 6y ago
  The facts are we have: * electronic voting machines * credible claims of foreign interference in elections * credible claims of organized state agent hacking of US digital infrastructure. * voting machines with designs and source code which are secret, and no way to know if they're working as advertised. We have cryptographic protocols for honest, verifiable, anonymous elections, which we don't bother implementing. It's all an honor system, in a government without much honor. We, quite frankly, have no way to know if votes are being counted correctly or honestly. As much as I disbelief Trump's claims of this election being rigged by democrats, the claims that we have excellent election security are false too. We have a huge chunk of the country openly lying about election results, and another half lying about election security. Two lies don't make a truth. If our current elections aren't being manipulated, you can bet future ones will be. It's easy for an organized state agent to do, and if it wasn't being done before, it will be now. And fixing this will be almost impossible post-Trump, because Democrats.
  - AshamedCaptain 6y ago
    > We have cryptographic protocols for honest, verifiable, anonymous elections, which we don't bother implementing We do?
    - 6y ago

dandanua 6y ago

>they falsely believe the election was stolen Or they know the truth, but respect and follow the forceful power, which Trump wants to represent. Edit: I guess people misinterpret what I mean. The truth is that Biden has won honestly, but insurgents just don't respect that.

engineeringwoke 6y ago
It appears that the Americans woke up, mods
- YinglingLight 6y ago
  Foreigners would be more neutrally observant, if foreigner's own Governments weren't scared shitless at the notion of their local populace starting to question the validity of their own Elections. As such, corresponding narratives are fed through their financed corporate Media.

bumbada 6y ago

You say they "falsely believe the election was stolen" like your equally radical opinion is right and they are wrong because you say so. I am not American and I don't care about Biden or Trump, but I care about democracy in general. I believe that this election has been at least suspicious, with trucks loaded with ballots disappearing, hundreds of thousands of votes suddenly going for Biden, chain of custody broken in so many places, suspicious donations for electronic voting machinery. To have a reasonable doubt is as respectable as not having it.

javajosh 6y ago
I very much dislike it when people see conflict and automatically assume symmetry. If someone pries open my car, pulls me out and starts beating me, and a cop comes over and sees "a fight" and arrests us both, is that fair? In the same way, you say that there are two "radical opinions" about voter fraud. This is false. There is only one radical opinion. It is similar to a flat earther claiming that schools need to "teach the controversy". No. They do not. Regarding the current conflict, there is deep asymmetry here. Trump has been claiming election fraud prior to the election since he was elected. When the election finally happened, Trump had over 60 chances to show evidence. Hefiled and lost over 60 lawsuits, including ones in front of judges he appointed, and in front of 3 supreme court justices he nominated. They all took his claims seriously, looked at them, and rejected them. These were his own appointees. That's where it should end. To continue to believe that "the election was stolen" under these circumstances is the only extreme view. Trump, and his GOP/Fox enablers, have been pushing this view as fact, and his followers have acted consistently, and violence has ensued. The violence, and the treason, falls squarely with them. And if you have any doubt that Trump's motive is about anything other than Trump wanting to keep power, then listen to that phone call to Georgia's (Republican) Secretary of State. But yes, I'm tired of hearing people say, when talking about Trump, that "both sides are bad" and "all politicians suck". No. I get the desire to avoid conflict, but those statements are simply false. Trump has broken his oath to the constitution, repeatedly and egregiously, and his misdeeds have not been matched. There is no symmetry here, there is only a traitor-in-chief and his cronies.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago

davidcollantes 6y ago

I think you meant to write "treasonous, brainwashed terrorists," instead of insurrectionists. Right?

AzzieElbab 6y ago

The people he was talking to did not need more convincing about election being stolen, they needed to be told to go home. That is what Trump did. That video alone had more historical value than 99.99999 content on Twitter.