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> the US didn't have a law against praising and supporting neo-Nazis Maybe that's the problem?

by africanboy 6y ago

ethbr0 6y ago
I don't think so? It's a pretty core feature of America's system to ban actions, not speech.
- africanboy 6y ago
  I am not convinced. Some speeches are omens to terrible actions and they are usually supported by symbols. I've seen the pictures of the Confederate Flag waving in the halls of the Senate, It was pretty disturbing to me. If I am not wrong that never happened before, not even during the Civil war. IMO if the flag entered the Capitol Building in 1860 it would have been normal, but today it has become the symbol of the resistance to the racial integration and the support to the segregation, hence it should be banned and people speaking openly about any "racial supremacy" should face consequences. outside the contexts of "art or science, research or teaching" (quoting the The German Strafgesetzbuch (Criminal Code) in section § 86a) it is simply unacceptable. After all it is written in the US Constitution that We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.
  - ethbr0 6y ago
    > Some speeches are omens to terrible actions and they are usually supported by symbols Absolutely. Which is why the US Supreme Court has continually debated and weighed First Amendment tension against public safety. To my knowledge, the Confederate battle flag has never flown in the US Capitol. Not in July, 1864, when the Confederate Army stared at it across 6 miles and lightly defended lines [0]. Not after 1939 when it was hoisted in film by Gone with the Wind with sanitized nostalgia for an antebellum past [1]. And certainly not in the 50s and 60s when it was appropriated by the reborn Ku Klux Klan to represent their racist beliefs [2]. But it has been present at all three instances of armed insurrection against the US government -- Civil War, first US terrorist organization, and modern, militant Trump supporters. And ultimately, it's those people's actions, not their ideas or symbols, that are dangerous. As Justice Louis D. Brandeis wrote in Whitney v. California [3], by way of Jefferson's views [4]: "[Those who won our independence] believed that freedom to think as you will and to speak as you think are means indispensable to the discovery and spread of political truth; that without free speech and assembly discussion would be futile; that with them, discussion affords ordinarily adequate protection against the dissemination of noxious doctrine; that the greatest menace to freedom is an inert people; that public discussion is a political duty; and that this should be a fundamental principle of the American government. They recognized the risks to which all human institutions are subject. But they knew that order cannot be secured merely through fear of punishment for its infraction; that it is hazardous to discourage thought, hope and imagination; that fear breeds repression; that repression breeds hate; that hate menaces stable government; that the path of safety lies in the opportunity to discuss freely supposed grievances and proposed remedies; and that the fitting remedy for evil counsels is good ones." To consign evil to the shadows is no victory, for there are always shadows. [0] https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/when-washington-dc-came-close-to-being-conquered-by-the-confederacy-180951994/ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/when-washington-dc-ca... [1] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qSEVyzKmlyU https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qSEVyzKmlyU [2] https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/the-confederate-flag-flies-as-ku-klux-klan-members-gather-news-photo/113917842 https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/the-confederat... [3] https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/274/357 https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/274/357 [4] https://jeffersonpapers.princeton.edu/selected-documents/elijah-boardman-0 https://jeffersonpapers.princeton.edu/selected-documents/eli...

> the US didn't have a law against praising and supporting neo-Nazis Maybe that's the problem?

ethbr0 6y ago

I don't think so? It's a pretty core feature of America's system to ban actions, not speech.

africanboy 6y ago
I am not convinced. Some speeches are omens to terrible actions and they are usually supported by symbols. I've seen the pictures of the Confederate Flag waving in the halls of the Senate, It was pretty disturbing to me. If I am not wrong that never happened before, not even during the Civil war. IMO if the flag entered the Capitol Building in 1860 it would have been normal, but today it has become the symbol of the resistance to the racial integration and the support to the segregation, hence it should be banned and people speaking openly about any "racial supremacy" should face consequences. outside the contexts of "art or science, research or teaching" (quoting the The German Strafgesetzbuch (Criminal Code) in section § 86a) it is simply unacceptable. After all it is written in the US Constitution that We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.
- ethbr0 6y ago
  > Some speeches are omens to terrible actions and they are usually supported by symbols Absolutely. Which is why the US Supreme Court has continually debated and weighed First Amendment tension against public safety. To my knowledge, the Confederate battle flag has never flown in the US Capitol. Not in July, 1864, when the Confederate Army stared at it across 6 miles and lightly defended lines [0]. Not after 1939 when it was hoisted in film by Gone with the Wind with sanitized nostalgia for an antebellum past [1]. And certainly not in the 50s and 60s when it was appropriated by the reborn Ku Klux Klan to represent their racist beliefs [2]. But it has been present at all three instances of armed insurrection against the US government -- Civil War, first US terrorist organization, and modern, militant Trump supporters. And ultimately, it's those people's actions, not their ideas or symbols, that are dangerous. As Justice Louis D. Brandeis wrote in Whitney v. California [3], by way of Jefferson's views [4]: "[Those who won our independence] believed that freedom to think as you will and to speak as you think are means indispensable to the discovery and spread of political truth; that without free speech and assembly discussion would be futile; that with them, discussion affords ordinarily adequate protection against the dissemination of noxious doctrine; that the greatest menace to freedom is an inert people; that public discussion is a political duty; and that this should be a fundamental principle of the American government. They recognized the risks to which all human institutions are subject. But they knew that order cannot be secured merely through fear of punishment for its infraction; that it is hazardous to discourage thought, hope and imagination; that fear breeds repression; that repression breeds hate; that hate menaces stable government; that the path of safety lies in the opportunity to discuss freely supposed grievances and proposed remedies; and that the fitting remedy for evil counsels is good ones." To consign evil to the shadows is no victory, for there are always shadows. [0] https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/when-washington-dc-came-close-to-being-conquered-by-the-confederacy-180951994/ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/when-washington-dc-ca... [1] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qSEVyzKmlyU https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qSEVyzKmlyU [2] https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/the-confederate-flag-flies-as-ku-klux-klan-members-gather-news-photo/113917842 https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/the-confederat... [3] https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/274/357 https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/274/357 [4] https://jeffersonpapers.princeton.edu/selected-documents/elijah-boardman-0 https://jeffersonpapers.princeton.edu/selected-documents/eli...