That helps and I agree with the examples you cite. I think then we're arguing about mostly bureaucracy - they work great for stable work that needs to happen on

That helps and I agree with the examples you cite. I think then we're arguing about mostly bureaucracy - they work great for stable work that needs to happen on a long term basis. Not agile. But, they have their purpose. If militaries and governments were formed like startups ("growth" as we define here), they would fail to function well. Hierarchy is important characteristic of militaries and big companies. We develop everything from fighter jets to fiscal policy through "designed" organizations.