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1) People are calling this an “insurrection” because it’s so directly an attack on country leadership. (Whereas the incidents you’re referencing are predominant

by Others 6y ago

1) People are calling this an “insurrection” because it’s so directly an attack on country leadership. (Whereas the incidents you’re referencing are predominantly riots and attacks on the police.) There may be hypocrisy here, but I don’t think that word is a part of it 2) I think the major difference in the left’s eyes is that those protests were against police brutality and racism, whereas this is an attack on our democracy and an attempt to overrule a free and fair election. Motives matter 3) Invading the capital building wielding deadly weapons is (pretty objectively) more serious than attacking the outside of a single federal courthouse (not to minimize that of course)

neartheplain 6y ago
Let's not mince words. Insurrection means violent uprising against the government. Attacks on public servants and public buildings for the purpose of overthrowing the government are insurrection. The Portland courthouse siege- OP's chosen example- was led by violent white anarchists. Their motive was to topple the government. Portland's Black Lives Matter activists complained many times that their cause and movement had been hijacked [0][1][2]. The people who invaded the capitol today, at least some, probably thought they were protecting democracy. They may have thought they were defending election integrity. They were wrong. That doesn't mean they are evil or amoral. It means they are misinformed and misled. Using them as a foil to downplay other, much more violent unrest is neither helpful nor informative. I haven't seen photos of armed rioters in the capitol. If you have some, please link them. [0] https://www.kgw.com/article/news/local/professor-focus-of-portland-protests-increasingly-frustrating-black-community/283-d15904c0-6e4b-4791-a831-cbb71da9410e https://www.kgw.com/article/news/local/professor-focus-of-po... [1] https://komonews.com/news/local/black-people-in-portland-struggle-to-be-heard-amid-protests https://komonews.com/news/local/black-people-in-portland-str... [2] https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2020-09-04/black-lives-matter-white-people-portland-protests-nfl https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2020-09-04/black-lives...
- smolder 6y ago
  They stormed the capitol, some with guns in hand. Five firearms were seized from the rioters.
- xref 6y ago
  Uhh, none of your links suggest the aim of the BLM movement is to “topple the government”. Also portland is on the wrong coast from “the government”
- tsimionescu 6y ago
  > The people who invaded the capitol today, at least some, probably thought they were protecting democracy. What they thought is irrelevant in a country that believes in the rule of law: they were attacking the highest institution of one branch of government with the express purpose of forcing them to overturn the legal result of the election and install their preferred president. This is an (attempted) insurrection, and there are no two ways around it. Comparing this to an attack on a courthouse is patently absurd. Especially since the courthouse was not attacked for 'toppling the government' - I can't even imagine where you came up with that - but because it was known that arrested/kidnapped protesters had been held inside the courthouse building. In general, none of the BLM or Antifa protesters are interested in "toppling the government" - they are interested in "toppling" the police and in stopping the white nationalist fascists that police are openly supporting from taking over the country.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - neartheplain 6y ago
    >This is an (attempted) insurrection, and there are no two ways around it. Yes, I called it insurrection earlier. You've replied to my comment out of context of the reply which preceded it, so your strawman of me doesn't make any sense. >they are interested in "toppling" the police and in stopping the white nationalist fascists that police are openly supporting I wrote a longer reply to your comment, but then I deleted it. DC metro police are more than 50% black, it's a joke that they would "openly support white supremacists."
- SamoyedFurFluff 6y ago
  If intent mattered when it came to storming the capitol then it should matter when it comes to rioting against the police.
- ghthor 6y ago
  Your doing gods work, thanks for your informative comments.

by Others 6y ago

neartheplain 6y ago

Let's not mince words. Insurrection means violent uprising against the government. Attacks on public servants and public buildings for the purpose of overthrowing the government are insurrection. The Portland courthouse siege- OP's chosen example- was led by violent white anarchists. Their motive was to topple the government. Portland's Black Lives Matter activists complained many times that their cause and movement had been hijacked [0][1][2]. The people who invaded the capitol today, at least some, probably thought they were protecting democracy. They may have thought they were defending election integrity. They were wrong. That doesn't mean they are evil or amoral. It means they are misinformed and misled. Using them as a foil to downplay other, much more violent unrest is neither helpful nor informative. I haven't seen photos of armed rioters in the capitol. If you have some, please link them. [0] https://www.kgw.com/article/news/local/professor-focus-of-portland-protests-increasingly-frustrating-black-community/283-d15904c0-6e4b-4791-a831-cbb71da9410e https://www.kgw.com/article/news/local/professor-focus-of-po... [1] https://komonews.com/news/local/black-people-in-portland-struggle-to-be-heard-amid-protests https://komonews.com/news/local/black-people-in-portland-str... [2] https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2020-09-04/black-lives-matter-white-people-portland-protests-nfl https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2020-09-04/black-lives...

smolder 6y ago
They stormed the capitol, some with guns in hand. Five firearms were seized from the rioters.
xref 6y ago
Uhh, none of your links suggest the aim of the BLM movement is to “topple the government”. Also portland is on the wrong coast from “the government”
tsimionescu 6y ago
> The people who invaded the capitol today, at least some, probably thought they were protecting democracy. What they thought is irrelevant in a country that believes in the rule of law: they were attacking the highest institution of one branch of government with the express purpose of forcing them to overturn the legal result of the election and install their preferred president. This is an (attempted) insurrection, and there are no two ways around it. Comparing this to an attack on a courthouse is patently absurd. Especially since the courthouse was not attacked for 'toppling the government' - I can't even imagine where you came up with that - but because it was known that arrested/kidnapped protesters had been held inside the courthouse building. In general, none of the BLM or Antifa protesters are interested in "toppling the government" - they are interested in "toppling" the police and in stopping the white nationalist fascists that police are openly supporting from taking over the country.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- neartheplain 6y ago
  >This is an (attempted) insurrection, and there are no two ways around it. Yes, I called it insurrection earlier. You've replied to my comment out of context of the reply which preceded it, so your strawman of me doesn't make any sense. >they are interested in "toppling" the police and in stopping the white nationalist fascists that police are openly supporting I wrote a longer reply to your comment, but then I deleted it. DC metro police are more than 50% black, it's a joke that they would "openly support white supremacists."
SamoyedFurFluff 6y ago
If intent mattered when it came to storming the capitol then it should matter when it comes to rioting against the police.
ghthor 6y ago
Your doing gods work, thanks for your informative comments.