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> The North Korean terrorists just basically walked in and took the White House. We were like, no way that could really happen. And here today, we literally saw

> The North Korean terrorists just basically walked in and took the White House. We were like, no way that could really happen. And here today, we literally saw it happen. The total strength of government building security in DC is around 2 battaglions. You think there is nobody who can bring 2000-3000 people to the rifle, and numerically overwhelm them? And it seems that not insubstantial numbers of DC security personnel did simply desert their posts. Commando paratroopers with heavy weapons, and moreover armour will leave no chances for a regular army unit, let alone civilian police.

ben_w 6y ago
I expect the security personnel to be trained and the mob to not be trained. I expect (given the consequences of allowing them in and prior use of lethal force against demonstrations by Americans in America) the security personnel to be ready, willing, and able to use lethal force to keep armed protestors out, even if the doors were open. I expect the doors to be strong enough to withstand anything short of an RPG. I do not expect security personnel to desert their posts in their own capital city.
- baybal2 6y ago
  > I do not expect security personnel to desert their posts in their own capital city. To me, it felt they were quite demoralised.
- stef25 6y ago
  > I do not expect security personnel to desert their posts in their own capital city. Surely that was out of concern for their own safety (to retreat can be a valid strategy) and / or not willing to open fire on US civilians in such a symbolic place.
  - pjc50 6y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_United_States_Capitol_shooting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_United_States_Capitol_sho... ; I guess if there's just one civilian the symbolism of shooting them is fine.
    - curryst 6y ago
      I hadn't heard about that before. In fairness, she did hit several officers with her car, and was actively attempting to run one over when she was shot. It's still a shame. I do wonder if there's something else they could have done. I don't know anything about how hard it is to stop a car.
- anigbrowl 6y ago
  I expect the security personnel to be trained and the mob to not be trained. The latter assumption is a serious mistake. Sure, the mob is not as well trained as professionals, but when you consider the number of vets with some military experience, the fairly large numbers of militia organizations which provide amateur levels of training in both virtual and real contexts, and the high availability of training materials (military manuals etc), it's smart to assume that any given mob will contain some people who know what they're doing and are able to direct others.
  - baybal2 6y ago
    If they would've used their military experience, they would've not came unarmed.
    - anigbrowl 6y ago
      Not all of them did: https://twitter.com/keith_rosson/status/1346993989057093634 https://twitter.com/keith_rosson/status/1346993989057093634 But DC has rather strict laws about firearms, so it was rational to rely on a swarming approach and then try to exploit the gains from that tactic. While the attempt to take over the capitol failed insofar as Congress reconvened to finish the process of counting electoral college votes, and many of the participants have been or are about to be arrested, the far right has scored an outstanding propaganda victory (complete with photogenic martyrs) at little real cost. I would say 2021 has got off to a spectacular start for them.
      - baybal2 6y ago
        Cannot agree with you on firearms point, but more or less on everything else. https://mobile.twitter.com/JoshuaPotash/status/1347277542588297217 https://mobile.twitter.com/JoshuaPotash/status/1347277542588... If your aim is to stage a putsch for real, you wouldn't be bothered by some gun laws, you would've gone all in.
        anigbrowl 6y ago
Solocomplex 6y ago
Your grammar is very strange. Where are you from?
- baybal2 6y ago
  From a place too terrible to name

ben_w 6y ago

I expect the security personnel to be trained and the mob to not be trained. I expect (given the consequences of allowing them in and prior use of lethal force against demonstrations by Americans in America) the security personnel to be ready, willing, and able to use lethal force to keep armed protestors out, even if the doors were open. I expect the doors to be strong enough to withstand anything short of an RPG. I do not expect security personnel to desert their posts in their own capital city.

baybal2 6y ago
> I do not expect security personnel to desert their posts in their own capital city. To me, it felt they were quite demoralised.
stef25 6y ago
> I do not expect security personnel to desert their posts in their own capital city. Surely that was out of concern for their own safety (to retreat can be a valid strategy) and / or not willing to open fire on US civilians in such a symbolic place.
- pjc50 6y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_United_States_Capitol_shooting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_United_States_Capitol_sho... ; I guess if there's just one civilian the symbolism of shooting them is fine.
  - curryst 6y ago
    I hadn't heard about that before. In fairness, she did hit several officers with her car, and was actively attempting to run one over when she was shot. It's still a shame. I do wonder if there's something else they could have done. I don't know anything about how hard it is to stop a car.
anigbrowl 6y ago
I expect the security personnel to be trained and the mob to not be trained. The latter assumption is a serious mistake. Sure, the mob is not as well trained as professionals, but when you consider the number of vets with some military experience, the fairly large numbers of militia organizations which provide amateur levels of training in both virtual and real contexts, and the high availability of training materials (military manuals etc), it's smart to assume that any given mob will contain some people who know what they're doing and are able to direct others.
- baybal2 6y ago
  If they would've used their military experience, they would've not came unarmed.
  - anigbrowl 6y ago
    Not all of them did: https://twitter.com/keith_rosson/status/1346993989057093634 https://twitter.com/keith_rosson/status/1346993989057093634 But DC has rather strict laws about firearms, so it was rational to rely on a swarming approach and then try to exploit the gains from that tactic. While the attempt to take over the capitol failed insofar as Congress reconvened to finish the process of counting electoral college votes, and many of the participants have been or are about to be arrested, the far right has scored an outstanding propaganda victory (complete with photogenic martyrs) at little real cost. I would say 2021 has got off to a spectacular start for them.
    - baybal2 6y ago
      Cannot agree with you on firearms point, but more or less on everything else. https://mobile.twitter.com/JoshuaPotash/status/1347277542588297217 https://mobile.twitter.com/JoshuaPotash/status/1347277542588... If your aim is to stage a putsch for real, you wouldn't be bothered by some gun laws, you would've gone all in.
      - anigbrowl 6y ago

Solocomplex 6y ago

Your grammar is very strange. Where are you from?

baybal2 6y ago
From a place too terrible to name