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>Linus, as the namesake for Linux also made a huge impact on the field... and comes off as somewhat of an uncontrolled lunatic. What? Linus is one of the most

>Linus, as the namesake for Linux also made a huge impact on the field... and comes off as somewhat of an uncontrolled lunatic. What? Linus is one of the most Rational, Direct, No-Nonsense, Get Things Done Leader there is. Whenever i hear some self-appointed "expert" pontificate on Leadership/Management/etc. i always think of what Linus would say/do in that situation. People only think of him as a "Technical Guy" but his Leadership/Management of something so vital, so huge, so distributed, with so many "employees" and with so few resources, so many stakeholders is what is amazing to me. Nobody comes close. You really need to take back the "uncontrolled lunatic" phrase.

permille42 6y ago
As an "uncontrolled lunatic" myself, they are rather obvious in the field. I'll agree that many of the things he says are reasonable. An example is his recent defense of long lines and dismissal of the insane "80 characters per line" peeps. What I mean specifically by "uncontrolled lunatic" is that he often ignores convention and current opinion and does and says things that get him into trouble. He also has a temper that he often is bad at controlling. I myself have this issue, and I don't see how one could say he does not have issues in this regard. While it requires some amount of perpendicular thinking to be a master of software, having such an attitude and working with other people in that way will cause too much conflict that is unnecessary. I think what you are missing in my statement is that I consider calling someone an "uncontrolled lunatic" as a sort of compliment. I agree also that he is less of a technical person and more of a manager. His skills lie in herding. On the other hand; Git is a flaming piece of garbage and he is directly responsible for its popularity... so... He did though reasonably tell people he didn't intend for anyone outside of kernel developers to use it. I just wish he corrected its deficiencies. Maybe someday he can apply his "arbitrary character restrictions are silly" logic to Git comments and become less contradictory.
- rramadass 6y ago
  I have heard these arguments before. You cannot separate Linus' so-called "shortcomings" from how they were instrumental in getting him to what he has delivered and where he is today. Genius cannot be constrained by every single artificial social more and etiquette; we are Humans not Automatons. As long as they do not lead to destruction of product/project/self/others it is merely a character trait which makes the person unique. All successful companies know this and "manage" their most important people accordingly.
  - permille42 6y ago
    I disagree. The notion that "you have to accept the arrogance and obnoxious attitude of high level software engineers because it is inevitable that the type of people who excel at creating software are that way because they don't focus on social skills". Every one of us can work to be more polite and caring of the emotions of others. Especially if you know you suck at it you ought to use effort to be better in that way. Justifying treating others poorly just enables more people being hurt. We should not reward people for this sort of behavior. Turning a blind eye to it because "they are great software engineers" is not right. Your comment treads very much into the "for the greater good" mentality where you can justify anything based on the results. "Unique character trait" my ass. Obnoxious aholes are just that. Obnoxious aholes. They need to fucking stop and be more kind.
    - rramadass 6y ago
      You are now reading things which were simply not said nor implied. It is also quite ironic that while you talk about "being nice/kind" your posts are the ones containing inflammatory phrases like "uncontrolled lunatic", "arrogance and obnoxious attitude", "my ass" and "obnoxious aholes" ! Coming back specifically to Linus, he has never been any of the above. He has been direct and harsh when needed (there is a world of difference between this and the phrases you have used), otherwise he has shown a lot of restraint. For example, he has said that due to the nature of email communication, one has to be direct since a lot of non-verbal and personal nuances cannot be conveyed which is exactly right. I am sure we can all recollect email chains/discussions/meetings where nothing was ever achieved because people did not want to offend somebody with thin skin in spite of the fact that they were squarely to blame. Being direct and calling them out is not being obnoxious/arrogant but simply moving things along towards a goal. To be nice/kind does not mean everybody has to be mollycoddled and tip-toed around due not wishing to "hurt their feelings". Engineering is a hard science and while we have to follow social mores and etiquettes this should be regulated (i.e. we should know when to break them) so that progress towards the end goal is not derailed.
      - permille42 6y ago

permille42 6y ago

As an "uncontrolled lunatic" myself, they are rather obvious in the field. I'll agree that many of the things he says are reasonable. An example is his recent defense of long lines and dismissal of the insane "80 characters per line" peeps. What I mean specifically by "uncontrolled lunatic" is that he often ignores convention and current opinion and does and says things that get him into trouble. He also has a temper that he often is bad at controlling. I myself have this issue, and I don't see how one could say he does not have issues in this regard. While it requires some amount of perpendicular thinking to be a master of software, having such an attitude and working with other people in that way will cause too much conflict that is unnecessary. I think what you are missing in my statement is that I consider calling someone an "uncontrolled lunatic" as a sort of compliment. I agree also that he is less of a technical person and more of a manager. His skills lie in herding. On the other hand; Git is a flaming piece of garbage and he is directly responsible for its popularity... so... He did though reasonably tell people he didn't intend for anyone outside of kernel developers to use it. I just wish he corrected its deficiencies. Maybe someday he can apply his "arbitrary character restrictions are silly" logic to Git comments and become less contradictory.

rramadass 6y ago
I have heard these arguments before. You cannot separate Linus' so-called "shortcomings" from how they were instrumental in getting him to what he has delivered and where he is today. Genius cannot be constrained by every single artificial social more and etiquette; we are Humans not Automatons. As long as they do not lead to destruction of product/project/self/others it is merely a character trait which makes the person unique. All successful companies know this and "manage" their most important people accordingly.
- permille42 6y ago
  I disagree. The notion that "you have to accept the arrogance and obnoxious attitude of high level software engineers because it is inevitable that the type of people who excel at creating software are that way because they don't focus on social skills". Every one of us can work to be more polite and caring of the emotions of others. Especially if you know you suck at it you ought to use effort to be better in that way. Justifying treating others poorly just enables more people being hurt. We should not reward people for this sort of behavior. Turning a blind eye to it because "they are great software engineers" is not right. Your comment treads very much into the "for the greater good" mentality where you can justify anything based on the results. "Unique character trait" my ass. Obnoxious aholes are just that. Obnoxious aholes. They need to fucking stop and be more kind.
  - rramadass 6y ago
    You are now reading things which were simply not said nor implied. It is also quite ironic that while you talk about "being nice/kind" your posts are the ones containing inflammatory phrases like "uncontrolled lunatic", "arrogance and obnoxious attitude", "my ass" and "obnoxious aholes" ! Coming back specifically to Linus, he has never been any of the above. He has been direct and harsh when needed (there is a world of difference between this and the phrases you have used), otherwise he has shown a lot of restraint. For example, he has said that due to the nature of email communication, one has to be direct since a lot of non-verbal and personal nuances cannot be conveyed which is exactly right. I am sure we can all recollect email chains/discussions/meetings where nothing was ever achieved because people did not want to offend somebody with thin skin in spite of the fact that they were squarely to blame. Being direct and calling them out is not being obnoxious/arrogant but simply moving things along towards a goal. To be nice/kind does not mean everybody has to be mollycoddled and tip-toed around due not wishing to "hurt their feelings". Engineering is a hard science and while we have to follow social mores and etiquettes this should be regulated (i.e. we should know when to break them) so that progress towards the end goal is not derailed.
    - permille42 6y ago