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Baloney. First, two wrongs don’t make a right. Anyone in support of this seditious and violent behavior should be ashamed. Second, you have it backwards. Trump

Baloney. First, two wrongs don’t make a right. Anyone in support of this seditious and violent behavior should be ashamed. Second, you have it backwards. Trump IS an authoritian - if today isn’t proof of that to you then I don’t know what to say to you. Which sadly seems to exactly be the problem. But I’ll reiterate the facts: - Zero election fraud. - President Trump lying and saying fraud existing, that the election is not in fact legitimate, and encouraging a violent mob to storm the capital.

djsumdog 6y ago
> Second, you have it backwards. Trump IS an authoritian - if today isn’t proof of that to you then I don’t know what to say to you. His last and final tweet was literally to tell everyone to go home and not cause violence. He literally said he wanted peace. Either you haven't listened to it or your hatred is so strong nothing will quench that fire. Trump could have told them to occupy the building and they would have. He is the first president in my lifetime to not start a new war. He let cities burn and didn't send in any people unless states asked for it. In what fucked up world do you think Trump is authoritarian?
- adamsea 6y ago
  Um he incited the mob in the first place and his message also praised the mob; he’s a liar and manipulator and this isn’t a time to pretend that his second grade wordplay-cleverness deniability double language actually fools anyone. He’s the fucking President of the country. He has responsibilities to defend the Constitution and the government and the country. He clearly failed those responsibilities today. Shame on you.
  - thu2111 6y ago
    Is there any way to allege voting fraud as a president without the very act of making the charge inciting a mob?
    - klyrs 6y ago
      Bring the challenge to court. Say in court, under oath, the allegations that you claim in public. Accept the outcome of those cases. This has happened several times in recent presidential elections without triggering insurgency. Trump's lawyers played a PR game. They made ostentatious allegations in public, but almost never presented the courts with a viable case -- and notably, didn't claim those allegations in court. The court is obliged to throw out cases without merit, and did so. And that makes it really easy to run out and claim that the court is tossing out your cases without them going to trial.
    - adamsea 6y ago
      Only like anything that isn't actually inciting a mob? Seriously, I can't believe you had good intent and were engaging in good faith with that question because it's so obviously baloney. You need to think hard about your values, or, educate yourself more about history. For example: - Winston Churchill's five-volume history of WWII. Read the first volume of that and you'll understand what is or isn't OK in government, even in exceptional times. You'll also understand what government actually is, and what politics actually is. You'll see what a leader making a difficult and controversial decision, and then taking responsibility for it, actually looks like - in both success and failure. - Leadership: In Turbulent Times, by Doris Kearns Goodwin. A classic which looks at Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, FDR, and LBJ at critical moments in their Presidencies and their past experiences which prepared them for success as leaders during a crisis. If you had read those books, or works of a similar quality, you would know better. As it stands it just sounds like you don't really understand what responsibility, leadership, accountability, politics, and government actually are. Or, that you're not interested in those things actually functioning in a just and democratic fashion. I honestly don't know which it is. Not to stereotype but I feel like SO many people on HN don't realize just how uneducated they are about history, government, and politics.
shripadk 6y ago
> Trump IS an authoritian Yes you are absolutely right! Trump bombed innocent kids in Syria after receiving the "Nobel Peace Prize". Trump dropped 26,171 bombs in 2016. Trump launched multiple Wars, invaded foreign countries and destroyed millions of lives and livelihood. Isn't it? Trump did all of the things an Authoritarian would do. Hang him for his crimes! > - if today isn’t proof of that to you then I don’t know what to say to you. I hope you got your "proof".
- Tainnor 6y ago
  You seem to be confused as to the meaning of the word "authoritarian". It does not mean "imperialist", which is what you are describing.
  - shripadk 6y ago
    I haven't come across an imperialist who did not end up becoming authoritarian or wasn't already an authoritarian. History is witness to what colonialism/imperialism can do to subjects it ends up gaining control over.
    - meowface 6y ago
      Right, but the question wasn't whether imperialism implies authoritarianism but whether authoritarianism implies imperialism. Most/all imperialists are authoritarian but many authoritarians aren't imperialists. It's true that Trump doesn't appear to be as imperialistic or hawkish as many previous presidents, but that doesn't imply one way or another anything about potential authoritarianism. You made an argument that accusations of Trump being an authoritarian are unfounded, but as evidence you cited examples of him not being an imperialist, rather than examples of him not being an authoritarian. Your examples don't preclude the possibility of him potentially being a non-imperialistic authoritarian.
      - shripadk 6y ago
        > rather than examples of him not being an authoritarian Well can you give me a way to find examples of him "not being" an authoritarian? That very question shows how weak your argument is. That you have to clutch at straws to prove he is an autocrat. Now let me ask you this: Is Putin an autocrat? You can give countless examples of why he is. Is Xi an autocrat? You can give countless examples of why he is. Is Kim Jong-un an autocrat? You can give countless examples of why he is. From targeted assassinations of opposition leaders to detention/containment/concentration/re-education camps you have every single reason to label them autocratic. Can you give examples of Trump being an autocrat? The literal definition of "autocrat" is "someone who has absolute power". Trump doesn't have absolute power. So how does it make him an autocrat? There are literally many autocrats in this World you can compare against. Trump is definitely a loud mouth. No doubt about it. And he is crass in the way he speaks. He doesn't have a likeable personality. He is a narcissist. His entire tenure was literally crying about how media treats him, how many in his own party don't support him (RINOs) and how investigations against him vis-a-vis Russian collusion was based on a hoax. Can you name one autocrat who cried about how powerless he is? Have you seen Putin talk this way? Xi talk this way? What about Hitler? Name one autocrat who comes to your mind who has exhibited this behaviour. You can't. This in no way sounds like an autocrat. An autocrat is never this weak and defeatist. The first thing an autocrat would do is muscle the media. Media thrived under the Trump regime. Constantly berating and attacking him. If this had happened in China or Russia that media house would be non-existent the very next second with all journalists mysteriously missing. If Jack Ma isn't safe you think journalists would be? No ways. This is autocracy for you. Heck, Trump ran his entire 2016 campaign on the slogan of "Lock her up". Did he do it? On the contrary, the entire scandal was hushed up and the investigative agencies instead focused on Trump's supposed collusion with Russia and Ukraine. I can bet my right limb no investigative agency will investigate Biden on his ties with Ukraine. Why? Because things are back to how it always was. Trump was just an aberration. History will be kinder to him because right now emotions are high and no one wants to see things without filters.
adamsea 6y ago
Ok downvoters: If Trump isn’t an authoritarian, tell me what he is. Because he obviously doesn’t believe in our system of democratic elections.

djsumdog 6y ago

> Second, you have it backwards. Trump IS an authoritian - if today isn’t proof of that to you then I don’t know what to say to you. His last and final tweet was literally to tell everyone to go home and not cause violence. He literally said he wanted peace. Either you haven't listened to it or your hatred is so strong nothing will quench that fire. Trump could have told them to occupy the building and they would have. He is the first president in my lifetime to not start a new war. He let cities burn and didn't send in any people unless states asked for it. In what fucked up world do you think Trump is authoritarian?

adamsea 6y ago
Um he incited the mob in the first place and his message also praised the mob; he’s a liar and manipulator and this isn’t a time to pretend that his second grade wordplay-cleverness deniability double language actually fools anyone. He’s the fucking President of the country. He has responsibilities to defend the Constitution and the government and the country. He clearly failed those responsibilities today. Shame on you.
- thu2111 6y ago
  Is there any way to allege voting fraud as a president without the very act of making the charge inciting a mob?
  - klyrs 6y ago
    Bring the challenge to court. Say in court, under oath, the allegations that you claim in public. Accept the outcome of those cases. This has happened several times in recent presidential elections without triggering insurgency. Trump's lawyers played a PR game. They made ostentatious allegations in public, but almost never presented the courts with a viable case -- and notably, didn't claim those allegations in court. The court is obliged to throw out cases without merit, and did so. And that makes it really easy to run out and claim that the court is tossing out your cases without them going to trial.
  - adamsea 6y ago
    Only like anything that isn't actually inciting a mob? Seriously, I can't believe you had good intent and were engaging in good faith with that question because it's so obviously baloney. You need to think hard about your values, or, educate yourself more about history. For example: - Winston Churchill's five-volume history of WWII. Read the first volume of that and you'll understand what is or isn't OK in government, even in exceptional times. You'll also understand what government actually is, and what politics actually is. You'll see what a leader making a difficult and controversial decision, and then taking responsibility for it, actually looks like - in both success and failure. - Leadership: In Turbulent Times, by Doris Kearns Goodwin. A classic which looks at Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, FDR, and LBJ at critical moments in their Presidencies and their past experiences which prepared them for success as leaders during a crisis. If you had read those books, or works of a similar quality, you would know better. As it stands it just sounds like you don't really understand what responsibility, leadership, accountability, politics, and government actually are. Or, that you're not interested in those things actually functioning in a just and democratic fashion. I honestly don't know which it is. Not to stereotype but I feel like SO many people on HN don't realize just how uneducated they are about history, government, and politics.

shripadk 6y ago

> Trump IS an authoritian Yes you are absolutely right! Trump bombed innocent kids in Syria after receiving the "Nobel Peace Prize". Trump dropped 26,171 bombs in 2016. Trump launched multiple Wars, invaded foreign countries and destroyed millions of lives and livelihood. Isn't it? Trump did all of the things an Authoritarian would do. Hang him for his crimes! > - if today isn’t proof of that to you then I don’t know what to say to you. I hope you got your "proof".

Tainnor 6y ago
You seem to be confused as to the meaning of the word "authoritarian". It does not mean "imperialist", which is what you are describing.
- shripadk 6y ago
  I haven't come across an imperialist who did not end up becoming authoritarian or wasn't already an authoritarian. History is witness to what colonialism/imperialism can do to subjects it ends up gaining control over.
  - meowface 6y ago
    Right, but the question wasn't whether imperialism implies authoritarianism but whether authoritarianism implies imperialism. Most/all imperialists are authoritarian but many authoritarians aren't imperialists. It's true that Trump doesn't appear to be as imperialistic or hawkish as many previous presidents, but that doesn't imply one way or another anything about potential authoritarianism. You made an argument that accusations of Trump being an authoritarian are unfounded, but as evidence you cited examples of him not being an imperialist, rather than examples of him not being an authoritarian. Your examples don't preclude the possibility of him potentially being a non-imperialistic authoritarian.
    - shripadk 6y ago
      > rather than examples of him not being an authoritarian Well can you give me a way to find examples of him "not being" an authoritarian? That very question shows how weak your argument is. That you have to clutch at straws to prove he is an autocrat. Now let me ask you this: Is Putin an autocrat? You can give countless examples of why he is. Is Xi an autocrat? You can give countless examples of why he is. Is Kim Jong-un an autocrat? You can give countless examples of why he is. From targeted assassinations of opposition leaders to detention/containment/concentration/re-education camps you have every single reason to label them autocratic. Can you give examples of Trump being an autocrat? The literal definition of "autocrat" is "someone who has absolute power". Trump doesn't have absolute power. So how does it make him an autocrat? There are literally many autocrats in this World you can compare against. Trump is definitely a loud mouth. No doubt about it. And he is crass in the way he speaks. He doesn't have a likeable personality. He is a narcissist. His entire tenure was literally crying about how media treats him, how many in his own party don't support him (RINOs) and how investigations against him vis-a-vis Russian collusion was based on a hoax. Can you name one autocrat who cried about how powerless he is? Have you seen Putin talk this way? Xi talk this way? What about Hitler? Name one autocrat who comes to your mind who has exhibited this behaviour. You can't. This in no way sounds like an autocrat. An autocrat is never this weak and defeatist. The first thing an autocrat would do is muscle the media. Media thrived under the Trump regime. Constantly berating and attacking him. If this had happened in China or Russia that media house would be non-existent the very next second with all journalists mysteriously missing. If Jack Ma isn't safe you think journalists would be? No ways. This is autocracy for you. Heck, Trump ran his entire 2016 campaign on the slogan of "Lock her up". Did he do it? On the contrary, the entire scandal was hushed up and the investigative agencies instead focused on Trump's supposed collusion with Russia and Ukraine. I can bet my right limb no investigative agency will investigate Biden on his ties with Ukraine. Why? Because things are back to how it always was. Trump was just an aberration. History will be kinder to him because right now emotions are high and no one wants to see things without filters.

adamsea 6y ago

Ok downvoters: If Trump isn’t an authoritarian, tell me what he is. Because he obviously doesn’t believe in our system of democratic elections.