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> What is it that you think happened here? Like specifically how would this fraud work? [0] > The ballots have all been accounted for, an investigation confir

> What is it that you think happened here? Like specifically how would this fraud work? [0] > The ballots have all been accounted for, an investigation confirmed no boxes were added or removed, and all the ballots in Georgia were subsequently audited and then recounted twice. Can you link to the report of this investigation? How did they determine that no ballots were added? What is the chain of custody for the ballots that were removed from under the table? > Here is a slightly better link >> Pick theorized that the machines in the room could have totaled “18,000 ballots.” (Biden won the state by less than 12,000 votes.) But that’s wrong, according to the state election board monitor who was in the room as they counted. One of the guys implicated in the alleged fraud says its wouldn't have been enough to change the result. Did they attempt to verify this statement? >> The investigation remains open. Interesting how that works. They're confident enough that there's not anything there that they're willing to make public statements, but they're not willing to close the investigation and issue a report so people's concerns can be alleviated. > Do you think the investigators report would contradict their own testimony? Its possible but its more likely it would show how well (or not) the claims were investigated and present the evidence that was used to substantiate or reject the claims. The affidavit doesn't present any evidence other than the testimony of the investigator (who wasn't present at the incident) and is therefore meaningfully contradicted by the testimony of people who were there. > Not that it should matter, but all the county and state election officials involved are Republicans too. That's correct, it shouldn't matter and it does not matter. [0] https://ballotpedia.org/Ballot_stuffing https://ballotpedia.org/Ballot_stuffing

eli 6y ago
“Ballot stuffing” would require a lot more than sneaking in a suitcase of ballots which, to be clear, video surveillance shows is NOT what happened here. The number of ballots needs to match the number of votes cast according to the voter rolls. Is your theory that someone requested 18,000 ballots to registered voters at 18,000 different addresses and then returned them with matching signatures and also somehow ensured that none of them tried to vote themselves, which would have been immediately flagged? In all seriousness I think you should volunteer to be an observer for the next election and you will see how crazy this sounds.
- chordalkeyboard 6y ago
  > “Ballot stuffing” would require a lot more than sneaking in a suitcase of ballots Actually it would not require more. Sneaking in ballots that do not each correspond to one legal voter's actual vote would be technically and functionally sufficient. > which, to be clear, video surveillance shows is NOT what happened here. Can you refer to the chain of custody that provides evidence that these are legal ballots? Can you share the part of the video that proves these are legal ballots? > The number of ballots needs to match the number of votes cast according to the voter rolls. I'd need to see how these numbers were verified and what oversight was present. These ballots could have been added to the entries on the voter rolls when they were introduced into the counting facility. Without a proper chain of custody, we don't know. With suspicious behavior on film, we should investigate. > Is your theory that someone requested 18,000 ballots to registered voters at 18,000 different addresses and then returned them with matching signatures and also somehow ensured that none of them tried to vote themselves, which would have been immediately flagged? No, my "theory" is that the chain of custody for these ballots (the ones hidden under the table and counted in the middle of the night sans (R) observers) has not been presented as evidence, therefore it is normal for people to wonder if they are legitimate ballots. I don't need to theorize anything else in order to have legitimate concerns about election integrity. > also somehow ensured that none of them tried to vote themselves, which would have been immediately flagged? flagging doesn't do much when the flags are dismissed and the suspicious conduct explained as "just normal activity." > In all seriousness I think you should volunteer to be an observer for the next election and you will see how crazy this sounds. I think it would drive me nuts to witness misconduct, report it, swear to it in an affidavit, then hear three months of people denying my personal experience on the basis of claims by talking heads. > how crazy this sounds. There are a lot of disturbing things about election 2020, but somehow one of the worst is this attitude that I'm crazy if I think someone might do something illegal or unethical to sway an election, or am not convinced by the evidence-free attestations of persons who seem unable to entertain another person's perspective.
  - eli 6y ago
    I don't think you're crazy, but I think your theory is extremely implausible based on how elections are administered and ballots counted. I sincerely think you would benefit from being a part of the process next time around -- it's kind of fun and you learn a lot. I'm not sure it's helpful to keep going point by point, but this started because you said the video wasn't adequately explained. An observer says she was ordered to leave the room even though some counting continued. Other people in the room (including other Republicans) describe it differently. Investigators who watched the tape say it doesn't look like anyone was told to leave, but there's no audio on the tape. I'm not sure you're going to get much more of a definitive answer than that. But there's just a massive gap between "ballots were briefly recounted on video without Republican observers" and any sort of fraud. The tape shows the ballot boxes involved were supposed to be there. And it would require a truly impressive conspiracy to manifest thousands of bogus ballots into the process at this point. It just isn't plausible.

eli 6y ago

“Ballot stuffing” would require a lot more than sneaking in a suitcase of ballots which, to be clear, video surveillance shows is NOT what happened here. The number of ballots needs to match the number of votes cast according to the voter rolls. Is your theory that someone requested 18,000 ballots to registered voters at 18,000 different addresses and then returned them with matching signatures and also somehow ensured that none of them tried to vote themselves, which would have been immediately flagged? In all seriousness I think you should volunteer to be an observer for the next election and you will see how crazy this sounds.

chordalkeyboard 6y ago
> “Ballot stuffing” would require a lot more than sneaking in a suitcase of ballots Actually it would not require more. Sneaking in ballots that do not each correspond to one legal voter's actual vote would be technically and functionally sufficient. > which, to be clear, video surveillance shows is NOT what happened here. Can you refer to the chain of custody that provides evidence that these are legal ballots? Can you share the part of the video that proves these are legal ballots? > The number of ballots needs to match the number of votes cast according to the voter rolls. I'd need to see how these numbers were verified and what oversight was present. These ballots could have been added to the entries on the voter rolls when they were introduced into the counting facility. Without a proper chain of custody, we don't know. With suspicious behavior on film, we should investigate. > Is your theory that someone requested 18,000 ballots to registered voters at 18,000 different addresses and then returned them with matching signatures and also somehow ensured that none of them tried to vote themselves, which would have been immediately flagged? No, my "theory" is that the chain of custody for these ballots (the ones hidden under the table and counted in the middle of the night sans (R) observers) has not been presented as evidence, therefore it is normal for people to wonder if they are legitimate ballots. I don't need to theorize anything else in order to have legitimate concerns about election integrity. > also somehow ensured that none of them tried to vote themselves, which would have been immediately flagged? flagging doesn't do much when the flags are dismissed and the suspicious conduct explained as "just normal activity." > In all seriousness I think you should volunteer to be an observer for the next election and you will see how crazy this sounds. I think it would drive me nuts to witness misconduct, report it, swear to it in an affidavit, then hear three months of people denying my personal experience on the basis of claims by talking heads. > how crazy this sounds. There are a lot of disturbing things about election 2020, but somehow one of the worst is this attitude that I'm crazy if I think someone might do something illegal or unethical to sway an election, or am not convinced by the evidence-free attestations of persons who seem unable to entertain another person's perspective.
- eli 6y ago
  I don't think you're crazy, but I think your theory is extremely implausible based on how elections are administered and ballots counted. I sincerely think you would benefit from being a part of the process next time around -- it's kind of fun and you learn a lot. I'm not sure it's helpful to keep going point by point, but this started because you said the video wasn't adequately explained. An observer says she was ordered to leave the room even though some counting continued. Other people in the room (including other Republicans) describe it differently. Investigators who watched the tape say it doesn't look like anyone was told to leave, but there's no audio on the tape. I'm not sure you're going to get much more of a definitive answer than that. But there's just a massive gap between "ballots were briefly recounted on video without Republican observers" and any sort of fraud. The tape shows the ballot boxes involved were supposed to be there. And it would require a truly impressive conspiracy to manifest thousands of bogus ballots into the process at this point. It just isn't plausible.