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> The BLM protests were in response to a real, meaningful threat actually, your two examples are very alike in the "things that did not happen" category. the m

> The BLM protests were in response to a real, meaningful threat actually, your two examples are very alike in the "things that did not happen" category. the murder of George floyd was negligent at best and malicious at worst, but racist cops killing blacks is simply not a large issue, and certainly not a "meaningful threat" to all black people. San Harris published a seminal piece on the matter: https://youtu.be/vmgxtcbc4iU https://youtu.be/vmgxtcbc4iU

arcticbull 6y ago
I will listen to the piece. Without saying I agree or disagree, if I take the position that racism in policing doesn't exist, and that the police are treating everyone equally: America has in prison today almost 0.7% of its entire population. Right now. It is the world's leading jailer on a per-capita basis. [1] Two thirds of private prisons (which lets step back for a second is horrifying as a concept) include minimum occupancy clauses. [2] This is an utter failure of the state in its duty of care to its citizens. To call this a conflict of interest doesn't even begin to do it justice. The incarceration rate among African Americans is almost 7X that of white folks in America. Criminality and race do not go hand in hand, therefore there exists a real and meaningful problem that is disproportionately affecting a racial group. A social and/or economic problem. African Americans have way more interaction with police and policing, and even if you believe there's no racial disparity in the way those interactions go down - that instead they're killed and harassed at the same rate as white folks on a per-encounter basis - the fact is they have way, way more encounters per capita. This is likely a function of the society that America has built and fostered. The reaction and the frustration and the protest is still justified even if you believe that race didn't play a factor in the specific instances, and even if you believe there's no systemic issue with policing. Now, there's also evidence that there is a difference in how they are treated by police, but I think my argument holds even if you reject that premise. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_incarceration_rate#:~:text=At%20the%20end%20of%202016,the%20population%20was%20behind%20bars https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_incarceration_ra.... [2] https://www.prisonlegalnews.org/news/2015/jul/31/report-finds-two-thirds-private-prison-contracts-include-lockup-quotas/ https://www.prisonlegalnews.org/news/2015/jul/31/report-find...
- ksk 6y ago
  > if I take your position that racism in policing doesn't exist, and that the police are treating everyone equally: Please don't do this. Its obvious OP didn't even remotely mean or say this. They clearly said that there is some level of racism, not that it doesn't exist at all. Is it the greatest problem facing America? I'd argue its not even in the top 10.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - arcticbull 6y ago
    > They clearly said that there is some level of racism, not that it doesn't exist at all. Is it the greatest problem facing America? I'd argue its not even in the top 10. We can have multiple problems, and we can address them in parallel. We don't have to pretend one problem doesn't exist simply because we run into another.
    - RobRivera 6y ago
      true, but let's not put words in peoples mouths. its bad form
      - arcticbull 6y ago
        If I did that, it was unintentional. When I noticed how my reply could have been interpreted that way I cleared it up. If I've done so elsewhere please do share, and I'll make the corrections. That's not my intention!
    - ksk 6y ago
      Of course, why would anyone oppose it. But, we only have limited funds/time/political capital, etc. I think we should give top priority to healthcare/education/jobs/, and use the remaining funds to address other issues.
      - 6y ago
sanp 6y ago
Ok. Do you think the Capitol Police would have been as accommodating if a largely black crowd had tried to take over the Capitol?
- overallduka 6y ago
  This large BLM crowds have the costume of destroy and set fire on anything on their way, just glasses were broken yesterday. If the protestors start destroy everything surely would justify a more strong action.
  - alexilliamson 6y ago
    Don't know what the "costume of destroy and set fire" is, but the MAGA folks yesterday had actual weapons.
  - arcticbull 6y ago
    That was some failed state shit that happened yesterday.

arcticbull 6y ago

I will listen to the piece. Without saying I agree or disagree, if I take the position that racism in policing doesn't exist, and that the police are treating everyone equally: America has in prison today almost 0.7% of its entire population. Right now. It is the world's leading jailer on a per-capita basis. [1] Two thirds of private prisons (which lets step back for a second is horrifying as a concept) include minimum occupancy clauses. [2] This is an utter failure of the state in its duty of care to its citizens. To call this a conflict of interest doesn't even begin to do it justice. The incarceration rate among African Americans is almost 7X that of white folks in America. Criminality and race do not go hand in hand, therefore there exists a real and meaningful problem that is disproportionately affecting a racial group. A social and/or economic problem. African Americans have way more interaction with police and policing, and even if you believe there's no racial disparity in the way those interactions go down - that instead they're killed and harassed at the same rate as white folks on a per-encounter basis - the fact is they have way, way more encounters per capita. This is likely a function of the society that America has built and fostered. The reaction and the frustration and the protest is still justified even if you believe that race didn't play a factor in the specific instances, and even if you believe there's no systemic issue with policing. Now, there's also evidence that there is a difference in how they are treated by police, but I think my argument holds even if you reject that premise. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_incarceration_rate#:~:text=At%20the%20end%20of%202016,the%20population%20was%20behind%20bars https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_incarceration_ra.... [2] https://www.prisonlegalnews.org/news/2015/jul/31/report-finds-two-thirds-private-prison-contracts-include-lockup-quotas/ https://www.prisonlegalnews.org/news/2015/jul/31/report-find...

ksk 6y ago
> if I take your position that racism in policing doesn't exist, and that the police are treating everyone equally: Please don't do this. Its obvious OP didn't even remotely mean or say this. They clearly said that there is some level of racism, not that it doesn't exist at all. Is it the greatest problem facing America? I'd argue its not even in the top 10.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- arcticbull 6y ago
  > They clearly said that there is some level of racism, not that it doesn't exist at all. Is it the greatest problem facing America? I'd argue its not even in the top 10. We can have multiple problems, and we can address them in parallel. We don't have to pretend one problem doesn't exist simply because we run into another.
  - RobRivera 6y ago
    true, but let's not put words in peoples mouths. its bad form
    - arcticbull 6y ago
      If I did that, it was unintentional. When I noticed how my reply could have been interpreted that way I cleared it up. If I've done so elsewhere please do share, and I'll make the corrections. That's not my intention!
  - ksk 6y ago
    Of course, why would anyone oppose it. But, we only have limited funds/time/political capital, etc. I think we should give top priority to healthcare/education/jobs/, and use the remaining funds to address other issues.
    - 6y ago

sanp 6y ago

Ok. Do you think the Capitol Police would have been as accommodating if a largely black crowd had tried to take over the Capitol?

overallduka 6y ago
This large BLM crowds have the costume of destroy and set fire on anything on their way, just glasses were broken yesterday. If the protestors start destroy everything surely would justify a more strong action.
- alexilliamson 6y ago
  Don't know what the "costume of destroy and set fire" is, but the MAGA folks yesterday had actual weapons.
- arcticbull 6y ago
  That was some failed state shit that happened yesterday.