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> On the flip side, some of what you claim about--particularly ID rules--has a real disenfranchising effect on people. Having valid ID isn't an issue if you're

> On the flip side, some of what you claim about--particularly ID rules--has a real disenfranchising effect on people. Having valid ID isn't an issue if you're someone who drives, but if you're someone who is physically incapable of driving and can't get a driver's license, well, obtaining that ID can be quite difficult. (Even getting a driver's license in my state requires going to a particular building in the hours of 9-5 M-F--sucks if you have an hourly job you can't get time off to get an ID!) How many people actually exist in this country that have no form of ID? You need it for even getting various utilities in some areas (maybe all?) Further, why can’t we fix this issue? If it takes 3 hours to get the ID then compensate hourly workers to get it and pass a law requiring jobs to allow time for such a thing. Why because it’s difficult for some we give up on the entire idea of requiring IDs?

jcranmer 6y ago
> How many people actually exist in this country that have no form of ID? You need it for even getting various utilities in some areas (maybe all?) I don't have hard statistics, but for the photo ID usually advocated for, that number is going to be something like 5-10%. > Further, why can’t we fix this issue? If it takes 3 hours to get the ID then compensate hourly workers to get it and pass a law requiring jobs to allow time for such a thing. Why because it’s difficult for some we give up on the entire idea of requiring IDs? I would have no problem supporting voter ID laws if the issue of the difficulty of obtaining voter ID were addressed. However, my experience is that nearly every politician who advocates for voter ID laws is unwilling to address these measures, because their real goal is usually to disenfranchise voters who will vote for the opponent.
- titzer 6y ago
  > because their real goal is usually to disenfranchise voters who will vote for the opponent. This is the crux of the issue. I think there should be a constitutional amendment not only guaranteeing every citizen (felony convinction, in jail, or not!) not only the right to vote, but also requires them to vote. There should be a federal department in charge of finding you and collecting your vote. Too much politics is about getting people alternately mad, apathetic, or lazy, and we need to stop that.
  - likeclockwork 6y ago
    I agree 100%. Voting should be mandatory.
8note 6y ago
You can't fix the issues around Id because the people pushing for id rules want to use them to disenfranchise people. They won't go for solutions that make it easier to get the id because they don't want certain people to vote
npunt 6y ago
> Further, why can’t we fix this issue? If it takes 3 hours to get the ID then compensate hourly workers to get it and pass a law requiring jobs to allow time for such a thing. Why because it’s difficult for some we give up on the entire idea of requiring IDs? Don't assume people in power want to fix the issue. After the Voting Rights Act was gutted in 2013, states began shutting down DMV locations where IDs are issued. In Alabama, 31 of 67 locations were shut down, primarily in Black parts of the state. This was done specifically to disenfranchise voters, and was done in conjunction with pushes for Voter ID laws. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/23/us/politics/voting-rights-alabama.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/23/us/politics/voting-rights... https://www.aclu.org/blog/voting-rights/voting-rights-act/alabamas-dmv-shutdown-has-everything-do-race https://www.aclu.org/blog/voting-rights/voting-rights-act/al...
dhritzkiv 6y ago
(Canadian here) For a year or two, I didn't have a valid† form of photo ID. I don't drive, so I either didn't have a license or didn't have a learner's license that hadn't expired. You'd be surprised how far you can get by day-to-day without a legal photo ID. Utilities don't require photo ID, nor does voting (you're mailed a text-based voter registration piece of paper and just… show up and vote). It's nice. †I did have a photo provincial health card, but oddly enough, it's legally not considered a valid government ID in many contexts. I also had a passport but I had let it expire and didn't renew it for a while. Even when I did renew it, I would not carry my passport around with me, so it would not count as day-to-day photo ID. I have since acquired a provincial photo ID card, which looks like a license, but is a different colour and doesn't permit you to drive (Duh!) These weren't available til a few years ago.

jcranmer 6y ago

> How many people actually exist in this country that have no form of ID? You need it for even getting various utilities in some areas (maybe all?) I don't have hard statistics, but for the photo ID usually advocated for, that number is going to be something like 5-10%. > Further, why can’t we fix this issue? If it takes 3 hours to get the ID then compensate hourly workers to get it and pass a law requiring jobs to allow time for such a thing. Why because it’s difficult for some we give up on the entire idea of requiring IDs? I would have no problem supporting voter ID laws if the issue of the difficulty of obtaining voter ID were addressed. However, my experience is that nearly every politician who advocates for voter ID laws is unwilling to address these measures, because their real goal is usually to disenfranchise voters who will vote for the opponent.

titzer 6y ago
> because their real goal is usually to disenfranchise voters who will vote for the opponent. This is the crux of the issue. I think there should be a constitutional amendment not only guaranteeing every citizen (felony convinction, in jail, or not!) not only the right to vote, but also requires them to vote. There should be a federal department in charge of finding you and collecting your vote. Too much politics is about getting people alternately mad, apathetic, or lazy, and we need to stop that.
- likeclockwork 6y ago
  I agree 100%. Voting should be mandatory.

8note 6y ago

You can't fix the issues around Id because the people pushing for id rules want to use them to disenfranchise people. They won't go for solutions that make it easier to get the id because they don't want certain people to vote

npunt 6y ago

> Further, why can’t we fix this issue? If it takes 3 hours to get the ID then compensate hourly workers to get it and pass a law requiring jobs to allow time for such a thing. Why because it’s difficult for some we give up on the entire idea of requiring IDs? Don't assume people in power want to fix the issue. After the Voting Rights Act was gutted in 2013, states began shutting down DMV locations where IDs are issued. In Alabama, 31 of 67 locations were shut down, primarily in Black parts of the state. This was done specifically to disenfranchise voters, and was done in conjunction with pushes for Voter ID laws. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/23/us/politics/voting-rights-alabama.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/23/us/politics/voting-rights... https://www.aclu.org/blog/voting-rights/voting-rights-act/alabamas-dmv-shutdown-has-everything-do-race https://www.aclu.org/blog/voting-rights/voting-rights-act/al...

dhritzkiv 6y ago

(Canadian here) For a year or two, I didn't have a valid† form of photo ID. I don't drive, so I either didn't have a license or didn't have a learner's license that hadn't expired. You'd be surprised how far you can get by day-to-day without a legal photo ID. Utilities don't require photo ID, nor does voting (you're mailed a text-based voter registration piece of paper and just… show up and vote). It's nice. †I did have a photo provincial health card, but oddly enough, it's legally not considered a valid government ID in many contexts. I also had a passport but I had let it expire and didn't renew it for a while. Even when I did renew it, I would not carry my passport around with me, so it would not count as day-to-day photo ID. I have since acquired a provincial photo ID card, which looks like a license, but is a different colour and doesn't permit you to drive (Duh!) These weren't available til a few years ago.