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Your proposed system seems mostly unaware that bias pervades all people and therefore all systems. I don't think there's a way to system-design ourselves out

Your proposed system seems mostly unaware that bias pervades all people and therefore all systems. I don't think there's a way to system-design ourselves out of this situation.

mistermann 6y ago
That's the very point of such a system - to learn to recognize the symptoms of this problem, and how to rectify them. Also, note that bias is not a binary, it is a continuum, and our defaults can be overcome (see the third video linked above for an example). > I don't think there's a way to system-design ourselves out of this situation. I personally prefer to try and fail before declaring defeat. After all, how would one know if something isn't possible if no one ever tried it? If our ancestors had this attitude, we'd probably be doing something like having a pleasant ride in our horse and buggies rather than having pointless arguments with people we don't know who live half way around the world.
- NateEag 6y ago
  If our ancestors had this attitude, we might not have rage-builders being used daily by a third of living humans. I don't believe all problems are unsolvable, but I've seen many systems fail because they do not take human nature into account. Facebook and Twitter are probably the biggest such disasters I know about. I realize your proposal's intent is to help people realize they have this problem. I don't think it would do so very well.
  - mistermann 6y ago
    > If our ancestors had this attitude, we might not have rage-builders being used daily by a third of living humans. I agree. But we've got them now, so what will we do about it? > I don't believe all problems are unsolvable, but I've seen many systems fail because they do not take human nature into account. Me too. Let's say we did this and it didn't work - would this leave us in a worse state than before (excluding the development time involved)? > I realize your proposal's intent is to help people realize they have this problem. I don't think it would do so very well. You may be right! But how would we find out for sure? Hypothetically: if the idea went to a vote (to try such an experiment here on HN), would you vote for or against, and why?
    - NateEag 6y ago
      I'm not sure whether I'd vote for or against this proposal. I probably would just ignore it entirely, if it was experimental and opt-in. If it was required, I would probably stop using HN. Despite trying to be a careful systems thinker and programmer, at my heart of hearts I am a mystic and an artist. I suspect those parts of my worldview would be largely dismissed as drivel by people who are confident they know the truth and ideas that diverge from theirs as mine do aren't worth considering.

Your proposed system seems mostly unaware that bias pervades all people and therefore all systems. I don't think there's a way to system-design ourselves out of this situation.

mistermann 6y ago

That's the very point of such a system - to learn to recognize the symptoms of this problem, and how to rectify them. Also, note that bias is not a binary, it is a continuum, and our defaults can be overcome (see the third video linked above for an example). > I don't think there's a way to system-design ourselves out of this situation. I personally prefer to try and fail before declaring defeat. After all, how would one know if something isn't possible if no one ever tried it? If our ancestors had this attitude, we'd probably be doing something like having a pleasant ride in our horse and buggies rather than having pointless arguments with people we don't know who live half way around the world.

NateEag 6y ago
If our ancestors had this attitude, we might not have rage-builders being used daily by a third of living humans. I don't believe all problems are unsolvable, but I've seen many systems fail because they do not take human nature into account. Facebook and Twitter are probably the biggest such disasters I know about. I realize your proposal's intent is to help people realize they have this problem. I don't think it would do so very well.
- mistermann 6y ago
  > If our ancestors had this attitude, we might not have rage-builders being used daily by a third of living humans. I agree. But we've got them now, so what will we do about it? > I don't believe all problems are unsolvable, but I've seen many systems fail because they do not take human nature into account. Me too. Let's say we did this and it didn't work - would this leave us in a worse state than before (excluding the development time involved)? > I realize your proposal's intent is to help people realize they have this problem. I don't think it would do so very well. You may be right! But how would we find out for sure? Hypothetically: if the idea went to a vote (to try such an experiment here on HN), would you vote for or against, and why?
  - NateEag 6y ago
    I'm not sure whether I'd vote for or against this proposal. I probably would just ignore it entirely, if it was experimental and opt-in. If it was required, I would probably stop using HN. Despite trying to be a careful systems thinker and programmer, at my heart of hearts I am a mystic and an artist. I suspect those parts of my worldview would be largely dismissed as drivel by people who are confident they know the truth and ideas that diverge from theirs as mine do aren't worth considering.