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Trump's side and Twitter's side are both very far from what I see as moral. I'm not waiting until the tables turn from bad to worse to be horrified. I'm horrifi

Trump's side and Twitter's side are both very far from what I see as moral. I'm not waiting until the tables turn from bad to worse to be horrified. I'm horrified now. Sure, I'd be horrified even if people I generally agreed with were the ones censoring. It's might-is-right level stuff. Twitter's censorship is just one aspect of the issue. Talented philosophers, scientists, etc. are being excluded from mainstream society (forced out of their education, employment, etc.) for having the wrong opinions. Many of the smartest people I know exist almost entirely outside of established institutions. Not a good situation. Very sad that people have so much respect for those in power.

tomcam 6y ago
> Trump's side and Twitter's side are both very far from what I see as moral. I happen to feel the same way about his predecessor. But I always supported Obama‘s use of the bully pulpit. Even though I agreed with very little of his core politics, I feel it’s the right of the president to use freedom of speech, period. Also, regarding morality. Because I believe in freedom of speech, I support the right of people to write and say immoral things. Even reprehensible things. And if we choose to suppress such speech, we should expect it to go underground and fester and explode painfully at the worst possible time. Much better in my view that these things be examined and rebutted in the public sphere.
casefields 6y ago
Moral? The Hayes Codes is long gone. Tell me, if you were a lawyer, would you have defended the neo-nazis right to march down Skokie's Main Street where tons of Holocaust survivors settled down after escaping Germany?
- garbagetime 6y ago
  >Tell me, if you were a lawyer, would you have defended the neo-nazis right to march down Skokie's Main Street where tons of Holocaust survivors settled down after escaping Germany? If I was a lawyer I would have done that if that's what I was employed to do. Hayes code seems irrelevant: what was being discussed was people feeling less positive about censorship when those who they thought were moral were being censored (rather than those thought to be immoral).
- tomcam 6y ago
  Hayes Code is not relevant here AFAIK but.. > would you have defended the neo-nazis right to march down Skokie's Main Street where tons of Holocaust survivors settled down after escaping Germany? I would do it in a heartbeat. Of course I detest racism. Of course I think those marches were an act of evil. But the test of a freedom-loving people is how we protect the despised, not how we protect the majority. If we don't protect the freedoms of those we dislike, we will lose our own freedoms soon enough.
  - claudiawerner 6y ago
    There's an argument to be made that some things which are considered freedoms should not be considered freedoms because they can result in harm. At what point does protecting one exercise of one right of the despised outweigh the consequences of those actions? It's not about the people we dislike, it's about how those people - or anyone - acts, and the results of those actions. I still disapprove regardless of who it is who wants to march under a Nazi banner. Maybe society should have concerns not only along the lines of freedom. Or at least, to integrate both positive and negative liberty. Other Western democratic nations have balanced freedom and dignity quite well.

tomcam 6y ago

> Trump's side and Twitter's side are both very far from what I see as moral. I happen to feel the same way about his predecessor. But I always supported Obama‘s use of the bully pulpit. Even though I agreed with very little of his core politics, I feel it’s the right of the president to use freedom of speech, period. Also, regarding morality. Because I believe in freedom of speech, I support the right of people to write and say immoral things. Even reprehensible things. And if we choose to suppress such speech, we should expect it to go underground and fester and explode painfully at the worst possible time. Much better in my view that these things be examined and rebutted in the public sphere.

casefields 6y ago

Moral? The Hayes Codes is long gone. Tell me, if you were a lawyer, would you have defended the neo-nazis right to march down Skokie's Main Street where tons of Holocaust survivors settled down after escaping Germany?

garbagetime 6y ago
>Tell me, if you were a lawyer, would you have defended the neo-nazis right to march down Skokie's Main Street where tons of Holocaust survivors settled down after escaping Germany? If I was a lawyer I would have done that if that's what I was employed to do. Hayes code seems irrelevant: what was being discussed was people feeling less positive about censorship when those who they thought were moral were being censored (rather than those thought to be immoral).
tomcam 6y ago
Hayes Code is not relevant here AFAIK but.. > would you have defended the neo-nazis right to march down Skokie's Main Street where tons of Holocaust survivors settled down after escaping Germany? I would do it in a heartbeat. Of course I detest racism. Of course I think those marches were an act of evil. But the test of a freedom-loving people is how we protect the despised, not how we protect the majority. If we don't protect the freedoms of those we dislike, we will lose our own freedoms soon enough.
- claudiawerner 6y ago
  There's an argument to be made that some things which are considered freedoms should not be considered freedoms because they can result in harm. At what point does protecting one exercise of one right of the despised outweigh the consequences of those actions? It's not about the people we dislike, it's about how those people - or anyone - acts, and the results of those actions. I still disapprove regardless of who it is who wants to march under a Nazi banner. Maybe society should have concerns not only along the lines of freedom. Or at least, to integrate both positive and negative liberty. Other Western democratic nations have balanced freedom and dignity quite well.