10 ms·

This was the right move by Twitter at the right time. If they had blocked his account years, or even months ago, they would have had maintained no credibility

This was the right move by Twitter at the right time. If they had blocked his account years, or even months ago, they would have had maintained no credibility as a platform, in the pocket of the left, etc. If they don't take a stand now, they're all but complicit in perpetuating this [riot? attempted coup? insurrection?] That said, people should be careful what they wish for: we don't want a couple of powerful media platforms deciding which speech is considered permissible and which isn't. They have to be very conservative in their approach or these platforms will cease to carry any authority.

majormajor 6y ago
Do we want Twitter (or Facebook, or whatever) to "carry any authority"? Nobody in US politics has benefited more from Twitter and Facebook than Trump himself. Anything that makes us stop relying on those as sources of fact or reasoned political discussion sounds like it has a high chance of being a good thing to me.
- onionisafruit 6y ago
  Presumably twitter wants to carry some authority no matter what we want. What they did is in service if their own goals.
  - riffic 6y ago
    require interconnection/adversarial interoperability then as a condition of that authority.
    - pas 6y ago
      Require by who? How? Why? That authority is given by users basically. And users don't really care about media health.
      - lmm 6y ago
        Twitter gets a lot of their value from all sorts of official accounts, many of which are government agencies. E.g. the last time I applied for a passport, Twitter was the only support channel available (they had a "live chat" page on their website as well, but it was broken). That's not right - what if I'd been subject to one of Twitter's arbitrary bans?
        pas 6y ago
        Is there a requirement to only use platforms that are available to all citizens? I imagine people can be blacklisted by ISPs and/or mobile carriers. Even a landline contract is not guaranteed, right? What they can't do is turn people away at various offices. That said, I agree this kind of selective platform favoritism is (currently very minimally, but still) discriminatory. For example some people might not want to use Twitter for ideological reasons. (Let's say because it's a fucking cesspool that just generates tension.)
- paganel 6y ago
  I've said it in another comment, this is a very dangerous move by Twitter. The next Trump (and there probably will be a next Trump) will know from the very beginning in his mandate to neutralise companies like Twitter.
  - Duralias 6y ago
    If you mean by removing section 230, then wouldn't that just make everything much worse? When reading up about it, it seems like websites like twitter would have to either completely remove all types of moderation or get strict enough moderation that user comments would be unfeasible to allow. I don't see how that would accomplish anything but remove the social media sector from USA. Although I have yet to hear anyone's theory on what it could be replaced with.
    - paganel 6y ago
      > If you mean by removing section 230 No, I think the next Trump will do what Putin did with VKontakte and will take the company directly from the owners' hands (there are numerous ways to do that even in a Western democracy, the hostile takeover has practically been invented in the US). Of course he (most probably will be a "he") won't do that directly, one of his business friends will help. Things like "removing section 230" are just syntactic sugar that keep us programmers/geeks busy by barking at the wrong tree.
im3w1l 6y ago
Twitter banned him just after he told protestors to go home. His message of deescalation will not reach them, instead they will see he is banned and be further riled up. This is a very dangerous game twitter is playing.
- Pfhreak 6y ago
  There's nothing about that that message that was a message of de-escalation. He literally told the insurrectionists that he loved them and that the election was a fraud.
- jachee 6y ago
  That "go home in peace" message had all the sincerity and subtext of "Sure is a... nice place ya got here..."
- eertami 6y ago
  >message of deescalation Pull the other one. That's not what it was.
- NovemberWhiskey 6y ago
  Your timeline is wrong. The hiding of the tweets and the account lockdown happened after the police had already begun to re-take the Capitol; I want to say several hours later.
- true_religion 6y ago
  If he wants to reach out to people he has other avenues like public airwaves, the emergency broadcast system, the white house website, etc. We shouldn't act like Twitter is muzzling him during a time of crisis. Surely, a sitting US president can talk to the public without begging a private company to publish his words.
  - im3w1l 6y ago
    Good point.
  - abernard1 6y ago
Balgair 6y ago
> [riot? attempted coup? insurrection?] Putsch "A secretly plotted and suddenly executed attempt to overthrow a government" Though this wasn't so secretly plotted. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/putsch https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/putsch
99_00 6y ago
>If they don't take a stand now, they're all but complicit in perpetuating this [riot? attempted coup? insurrection?] But he's telling protesters to be peaceful, go home, and calling for respect for the law and law enforcement. https://www.thetrumparchive.com/ https://www.thetrumparchive.com/: These are the things and events that happen when a sacred landslide election victory is so unceremoniously & viciously stripped away from great patriots who have been badly & unfairly treated for so long. Go home with love & in peace. Remember this day forever! I am asking for everyone at the U.S. Capitol to remain peaceful. No violence! Remember, WE are the Party of Law & Order – respect the Law and our great men and women in Blue. Thank you! Please support our Capitol Police and Law Enforcement. They are truly on the side of our Country. Stay peaceful!
- bradlys 6y ago
  I mean, he’s saying that but also saying the election was stolen at the same time. As others have said, will no one rid me of this turbulent priest?
- maxerickson 6y ago
  These are the things and events that happen when a sacred landslide election victory is so unceremoniously & viciously stripped away from great patriots who have been badly & unfairly treated for so long. That's not a call for order.
- fredophile 6y ago
  Why is it that every time Donald Trump makes a statement like this, there are always large numbers of his supporters who believe he's still encouraging their bad behavior? I'd say he either knows what he's doing or his communication skills are dangerously bad for a politician. Am I missing a third option?
  - sibeliuss 6y ago
    It's called "nonverbal communication", the stuff in between the words. It works.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
TearsInTheRain 6y ago
Was twitter shutting down BLM or Antifa accounts during their riots this summer?
- maxerickson 6y ago
  Twitter regularly locks the accounts of people that violate their policies. So probably, if they were violating Twitter policy with their tweets. Given the large numbers of people involved you can probably find a Tweet that somebody twote that was a policy violation and didn't result in a lock. What about that?
- Exuma 6y ago
  No
- gamblor956 6y ago
  Can you cite any BLM or Antifa accounts that were posting tweets instigating violence (and which weren't shut down)?
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - abc-xyz 6y ago
    Not BLM/Antifa but Lijian Zhao (Chinese diplomat) posted a doctored image of a soldier holding a knife to a child’s throat with the message: “Shocked by murder of Afghan civilians & prisoners by Australian soldiers. We strongly condemn such acts, &call for holding them accountable.” (https://twitter.com/zlj517/status/1333214766806888448 https://twitter.com/zlj517/status/1333214766806888448). Twitter didn’t even bother to post a disclaimer (like they do with Trump’s tweets) and ignored the request of Australia’s PM to delete the tweet.
    - La1n 6y ago
      An image that is obviously not a photo. The dude is literally standing on a large puzzle board. It's a reference to something that actually happened, and clear it's not an actual photo... Should political cartoons also be removed in your opinion?
Meekro 6y ago
Twitter explicitly permitted tweets from Iranian Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei denying the holocaust and calling for the destruction of Israel. Jack Dorsey was asked about this in front of the Senate. [1] He had some hair-splitting, legalistic reason why Khamenei calling for Israel's destruction is not "incitement of violence" but some of Trump's tweets are. We all know what the real reason is. [1] https://jewishinsider.com/2020/10/twitter-jack-dorsey-ayatollah-israel/ https://jewishinsider.com/2020/10/twitter-jack-dorsey-ayatol...
- crummy 6y ago
  What is the real reason?
  - maest 6y ago
    > We all know what the real reason is. Is there a name for this sort of phrasing where the speaker pussyfoots around the point instead of clearly stating it?
    - spidersouris 6y ago
      An unsaid, I guess.
    - mrguyorama 6y ago
      It's called arguing in bad faith
8note 6y ago
They could have done it in early 2016. Then they'd be in the pocket of the establishment republicans and not the left
nullc 6y ago
> they're all but complicit in perpetuating this The message they removed for violating their rules stated-- after repeating the stolen election blather that he's been spinning for the last month--: "We have to have peace. We have to have law and order we have to respect our great people in law and order. We don't want anybody hurt. [...] We have to have peace. So go home, we love you, you're very special, you've seen what happens you've seen the way others are treated that are so bad and so evil. I know how you feel. But go home and go home in peace. Here is a copy of the full video: https://files.catbox.moe/71gfr1.mp4 https://files.catbox.moe/71gfr1.mp4 Knowing this, do you believe that it was still the right move to suspend his account over this particular video rather any of hundreds of prior cases or-- no doubt-- the hundreds of opportunities which would arise in the coming months?
willis936 6y ago
Trump being on Twitter is good for business. Everyday is another car crash and they’re the news station. Trump lost so the best way to maximize attention/profit is to shake things up on Trump’s way out. Ie start applying the rules to him with enough time for him to react to it before the end of his presidency. This seems like a highly calculated move with only one motive, and it isn’t the good of the people.

majormajor 6y ago

Do we want Twitter (or Facebook, or whatever) to "carry any authority"? Nobody in US politics has benefited more from Twitter and Facebook than Trump himself. Anything that makes us stop relying on those as sources of fact or reasoned political discussion sounds like it has a high chance of being a good thing to me.

onionisafruit 6y ago
Presumably twitter wants to carry some authority no matter what we want. What they did is in service if their own goals.
- riffic 6y ago
  require interconnection/adversarial interoperability then as a condition of that authority.
  - pas 6y ago
    Require by who? How? Why? That authority is given by users basically. And users don't really care about media health.
    - lmm 6y ago
      Twitter gets a lot of their value from all sorts of official accounts, many of which are government agencies. E.g. the last time I applied for a passport, Twitter was the only support channel available (they had a "live chat" page on their website as well, but it was broken). That's not right - what if I'd been subject to one of Twitter's arbitrary bans?
      - pas 6y ago
        Is there a requirement to only use platforms that are available to all citizens? I imagine people can be blacklisted by ISPs and/or mobile carriers. Even a landline contract is not guaranteed, right? What they can't do is turn people away at various offices. That said, I agree this kind of selective platform favoritism is (currently very minimally, but still) discriminatory. For example some people might not want to use Twitter for ideological reasons. (Let's say because it's a fucking cesspool that just generates tension.)
paganel 6y ago
I've said it in another comment, this is a very dangerous move by Twitter. The next Trump (and there probably will be a next Trump) will know from the very beginning in his mandate to neutralise companies like Twitter.
- Duralias 6y ago
  If you mean by removing section 230, then wouldn't that just make everything much worse? When reading up about it, it seems like websites like twitter would have to either completely remove all types of moderation or get strict enough moderation that user comments would be unfeasible to allow. I don't see how that would accomplish anything but remove the social media sector from USA. Although I have yet to hear anyone's theory on what it could be replaced with.
  - paganel 6y ago
    > If you mean by removing section 230 No, I think the next Trump will do what Putin did with VKontakte and will take the company directly from the owners' hands (there are numerous ways to do that even in a Western democracy, the hostile takeover has practically been invented in the US). Of course he (most probably will be a "he") won't do that directly, one of his business friends will help. Things like "removing section 230" are just syntactic sugar that keep us programmers/geeks busy by barking at the wrong tree.

im3w1l 6y ago

Twitter banned him just after he told protestors to go home. His message of deescalation will not reach them, instead they will see he is banned and be further riled up. This is a very dangerous game twitter is playing.

Pfhreak 6y ago
There's nothing about that that message that was a message of de-escalation. He literally told the insurrectionists that he loved them and that the election was a fraud.
jachee 6y ago
That "go home in peace" message had all the sincerity and subtext of "Sure is a... nice place ya got here..."
eertami 6y ago
>message of deescalation Pull the other one. That's not what it was.
NovemberWhiskey 6y ago
Your timeline is wrong. The hiding of the tweets and the account lockdown happened after the police had already begun to re-take the Capitol; I want to say several hours later.
true_religion 6y ago
If he wants to reach out to people he has other avenues like public airwaves, the emergency broadcast system, the white house website, etc. We shouldn't act like Twitter is muzzling him during a time of crisis. Surely, a sitting US president can talk to the public without begging a private company to publish his words.
- im3w1l 6y ago
  Good point.
- abernard1 6y ago

Balgair 6y ago

> [riot? attempted coup? insurrection?] Putsch "A secretly plotted and suddenly executed attempt to overthrow a government" Though this wasn't so secretly plotted. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/putsch https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/putsch

99_00 6y ago

>If they don't take a stand now, they're all but complicit in perpetuating this [riot? attempted coup? insurrection?] But he's telling protesters to be peaceful, go home, and calling for respect for the law and law enforcement. https://www.thetrumparchive.com/ https://www.thetrumparchive.com/: These are the things and events that happen when a sacred landslide election victory is so unceremoniously & viciously stripped away from great patriots who have been badly & unfairly treated for so long. Go home with love & in peace. Remember this day forever! I am asking for everyone at the U.S. Capitol to remain peaceful. No violence! Remember, WE are the Party of Law & Order – respect the Law and our great men and women in Blue. Thank you! Please support our Capitol Police and Law Enforcement. They are truly on the side of our Country. Stay peaceful!

bradlys 6y ago
I mean, he’s saying that but also saying the election was stolen at the same time. As others have said, will no one rid me of this turbulent priest?
maxerickson 6y ago
These are the things and events that happen when a sacred landslide election victory is so unceremoniously & viciously stripped away from great patriots who have been badly & unfairly treated for so long. That's not a call for order.
fredophile 6y ago
Why is it that every time Donald Trump makes a statement like this, there are always large numbers of his supporters who believe he's still encouraging their bad behavior? I'd say he either knows what he's doing or his communication skills are dangerously bad for a politician. Am I missing a third option?
- sibeliuss 6y ago
  It's called "nonverbal communication", the stuff in between the words. It works.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

TearsInTheRain 6y ago

Was twitter shutting down BLM or Antifa accounts during their riots this summer?

maxerickson 6y ago
Twitter regularly locks the accounts of people that violate their policies. So probably, if they were violating Twitter policy with their tweets. Given the large numbers of people involved you can probably find a Tweet that somebody twote that was a policy violation and didn't result in a lock. What about that?
Exuma 6y ago
No
gamblor956 6y ago
Can you cite any BLM or Antifa accounts that were posting tweets instigating violence (and which weren't shut down)?
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- abc-xyz 6y ago
  Not BLM/Antifa but Lijian Zhao (Chinese diplomat) posted a doctored image of a soldier holding a knife to a child’s throat with the message: “Shocked by murder of Afghan civilians & prisoners by Australian soldiers. We strongly condemn such acts, &call for holding them accountable.” (https://twitter.com/zlj517/status/1333214766806888448 https://twitter.com/zlj517/status/1333214766806888448). Twitter didn’t even bother to post a disclaimer (like they do with Trump’s tweets) and ignored the request of Australia’s PM to delete the tweet.
  - La1n 6y ago
    An image that is obviously not a photo. The dude is literally standing on a large puzzle board. It's a reference to something that actually happened, and clear it's not an actual photo... Should political cartoons also be removed in your opinion?

Meekro 6y ago

Twitter explicitly permitted tweets from Iranian Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei denying the holocaust and calling for the destruction of Israel. Jack Dorsey was asked about this in front of the Senate. [1] He had some hair-splitting, legalistic reason why Khamenei calling for Israel's destruction is not "incitement of violence" but some of Trump's tweets are. We all know what the real reason is. [1] https://jewishinsider.com/2020/10/twitter-jack-dorsey-ayatollah-israel/ https://jewishinsider.com/2020/10/twitter-jack-dorsey-ayatol...

crummy 6y ago
What is the real reason?
- maest 6y ago
  > We all know what the real reason is. Is there a name for this sort of phrasing where the speaker pussyfoots around the point instead of clearly stating it?
  - spidersouris 6y ago
    An unsaid, I guess.
  - mrguyorama 6y ago
    It's called arguing in bad faith

8note 6y ago

They could have done it in early 2016. Then they'd be in the pocket of the establishment republicans and not the left

nullc 6y ago

> they're all but complicit in perpetuating this The message they removed for violating their rules stated-- after repeating the stolen election blather that he's been spinning for the last month--: "We have to have peace. We have to have law and order we have to respect our great people in law and order. We don't want anybody hurt. [...] We have to have peace. So go home, we love you, you're very special, you've seen what happens you've seen the way others are treated that are so bad and so evil. I know how you feel. But go home and go home in peace. Here is a copy of the full video: https://files.catbox.moe/71gfr1.mp4 https://files.catbox.moe/71gfr1.mp4 Knowing this, do you believe that it was still the right move to suspend his account over this particular video rather any of hundreds of prior cases or-- no doubt-- the hundreds of opportunities which would arise in the coming months?

willis936 6y ago

Trump being on Twitter is good for business. Everyday is another car crash and they’re the news station. Trump lost so the best way to maximize attention/profit is to shake things up on Trump’s way out. Ie start applying the rules to him with enough time for him to react to it before the end of his presidency. This seems like a highly calculated move with only one motive, and it isn’t the good of the people.