7 ms·

Sure the network effect is strong but let’s not forget how WhatsApp got here in the first place: people installing a strange new app, often shared by their frie

by jsinai 6y ago

Sure the network effect is strong but let’s not forget how WhatsApp got here in the first place: people installing a strange new app, often shared by their friends via a text message invite link. I remember sitting in a circle with a group of friends one night 10+ years ago while each of us installed WhatsApp and had our first conversations on the app. It was a time when BBM was dominant and cross-platform messaging was new. Fast forward to today and already many of my groups are switching to Telegram or Signal. The move can be made faster now because groups are so prevalent on WhatsApp.

lifty 6y ago
Whatsapp had to compete with SMS, so when I was introduced to WhatsApp I thought it was a godsend and immediately adopted it. Also advertised it to all my friends. Switching now might be harder because there is a lot less to gain, besides some non-tangible “privacy”. What is this thing called “privacy”?
- renjimen 6y ago
  I was nodding along with your comment, wondering why it had been downvoted until I reached your last statement and couldn't tell if you were being serious or not.
  - toyg 6y ago
    I think (and hope) he’s just relying the difficulty of communicating the concept and value of techno-privacy to his friends and relatives - as opposed to the immediate and self-evident differential between whatsapp and sms texts.
  - colmvp 6y ago
    The parent poster is likely mimicking the people asking why are you asking me move to another app when this app does everything fine? To be honest, I'm not well versed in the debate of privacy, but invariably in discussing user tracking by BigCo's a lot of my friends just say "I don't care if they have my data, I've got nothing to hide."
    - daemin 6y ago
      I've been thinking about this a bit recently, and the saying should be extended to "I've got nothing to hide, now." Things change and either you'll do something which you'll want to hide, or society/politics/community will change which you'll have something to hide. An example in the first case is that you'll want to buy a secret gift for someone, but because of the tracking the surprise will be spoiled because they'll be seeing ads for it on their systems.
  - cercatrova 6y ago
    Are they not right though? People don't really care about "privacy", they just want it to work, and work with their friends. You or I can harangue all we want but it doesn't change the fact that people don't care in aggregate.
    - linspace 6y ago
      The next time someone says me "I have nothing to hide" I'm thinking of asking their salary because in my experience when people say that they actually mean they are not afraid of jail but would rather don't have a lot of details being made public like who they vote, their sexual preferences, their wealth or their personal opinion of a lot of their colleagues. Most of these details are easily inferred from their online behavior, not to mention personal chats. Part of the problem is that no one is going to say "I have something to hide". I'm not going to continue this rant because HN is not the audience that needs it but to summarize: defending privacy is an uphill battle and people are not right.
  - lifty 6y ago
    Indeed, I was playing the devil's advocate. I definitely care about privacy and I am quite an ardent supported of projects that try to solve this issue. I just learned that if privacy comes at a large expense (losing their social graph or unfriendly UX), people will not care for it. So I guess we need to do better so we can have both privacy and good UX.
    - renjimen 6y ago
      I'd hoped so! Somethings are lost in text and you know what they say about assuming
- im3w1l 6y ago
  Facebook is a private company. Freedom of speech doesn't mean they are obligated to give you a megaphone for asking your mom how she is doing. They can and do ban people for any and no reason, cutting you off from your social network at a moments notice.
- esperent 6y ago
  Even my mother, in her 70s, who somehow always manages to have a new virus or piece of crapware on her laptop every time I visit, knows about the importance of this thing called "privacy" and had no trouble grasping the idea that everything she shares on FB is recorded and used for advertising. It's not a hard concept, and it's not just tech people who care about it. It doesn't require any knowledge of tech to understand. On the other hand, she knows how to use FB messenger and my efforts to get her to switch to email/telegram have just caused confusion so far.
  - dvtrn 6y ago
    Am I off the mark in guessing your mother, in her 70’s has some strong opinions about one Senator Joe McCarthy or Hoover? Has she ever spoken much about living through that period-assuming your family are American? My apologies for the imposition if that’s not the case.
    - sthnblllII 6y ago
      J Edger Hoover was a cross dressing homosexual who collected blackmail on political opponents while he was himself being blackmailed by organized crime. https://www.mojeek.com/search?q=j+edgar+hoover+blackmail https://www.mojeek.com/search?q=j+edgar+hoover+blackmail
      - LordDragonfang 6y ago
        Most of the search results on that page are pretty sketchy, the top result is a tripod site and one is literally a school paper.
        sthnblllII 6y ago
        https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/five-myths-about-j-edgar-hoover/2011/11/07/gIQASLlo5M_story.html?utm_term=.a6daf93ea26f https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/five-myths-about-j-e... They call everything "a myth" and then cite strong circumstantial and testimonial evidence that those "myths" are true, only to dismiss everything with hand waving about how "we'll never know" what his extremely private and mysterious sex life was like. Give me a break.
chupchap 6y ago
Telegram is getting really popular in India for bigger groups such as those in building societies and for parents in schools as they allow for more members. For one to one communication I don't see a change happening soon.
cat199 6y ago
> cross-platform messaging was new. when was cross-platform messaging ever new? ... IRC, AIM, etc ...
- beagle3 6y ago
  Neither was effectively available on phones ever. This is in relation to iMessage vs BBM vs whatever was popular on Android at the time. (And they got on boarding, group functionality and UI better than anyone for a very long time)
decrypt 6y ago
I remember paying a dollar to use WhatsApp for an year. I wish it remained independent and subscription-supported.

by jsinai 6y ago

lifty 6y ago

Whatsapp had to compete with SMS, so when I was introduced to WhatsApp I thought it was a godsend and immediately adopted it. Also advertised it to all my friends. Switching now might be harder because there is a lot less to gain, besides some non-tangible “privacy”. What is this thing called “privacy”?

renjimen 6y ago
I was nodding along with your comment, wondering why it had been downvoted until I reached your last statement and couldn't tell if you were being serious or not.
- toyg 6y ago
  I think (and hope) he’s just relying the difficulty of communicating the concept and value of techno-privacy to his friends and relatives - as opposed to the immediate and self-evident differential between whatsapp and sms texts.
- colmvp 6y ago
  The parent poster is likely mimicking the people asking why are you asking me move to another app when this app does everything fine? To be honest, I'm not well versed in the debate of privacy, but invariably in discussing user tracking by BigCo's a lot of my friends just say "I don't care if they have my data, I've got nothing to hide."
  - daemin 6y ago
    I've been thinking about this a bit recently, and the saying should be extended to "I've got nothing to hide, now." Things change and either you'll do something which you'll want to hide, or society/politics/community will change which you'll have something to hide. An example in the first case is that you'll want to buy a secret gift for someone, but because of the tracking the surprise will be spoiled because they'll be seeing ads for it on their systems.
- cercatrova 6y ago
  Are they not right though? People don't really care about "privacy", they just want it to work, and work with their friends. You or I can harangue all we want but it doesn't change the fact that people don't care in aggregate.
  - linspace 6y ago
    The next time someone says me "I have nothing to hide" I'm thinking of asking their salary because in my experience when people say that they actually mean they are not afraid of jail but would rather don't have a lot of details being made public like who they vote, their sexual preferences, their wealth or their personal opinion of a lot of their colleagues. Most of these details are easily inferred from their online behavior, not to mention personal chats. Part of the problem is that no one is going to say "I have something to hide". I'm not going to continue this rant because HN is not the audience that needs it but to summarize: defending privacy is an uphill battle and people are not right.
- lifty 6y ago
  Indeed, I was playing the devil's advocate. I definitely care about privacy and I am quite an ardent supported of projects that try to solve this issue. I just learned that if privacy comes at a large expense (losing their social graph or unfriendly UX), people will not care for it. So I guess we need to do better so we can have both privacy and good UX.
  - renjimen 6y ago
    I'd hoped so! Somethings are lost in text and you know what they say about assuming
im3w1l 6y ago
Facebook is a private company. Freedom of speech doesn't mean they are obligated to give you a megaphone for asking your mom how she is doing. They can and do ban people for any and no reason, cutting you off from your social network at a moments notice.
esperent 6y ago
Even my mother, in her 70s, who somehow always manages to have a new virus or piece of crapware on her laptop every time I visit, knows about the importance of this thing called "privacy" and had no trouble grasping the idea that everything she shares on FB is recorded and used for advertising. It's not a hard concept, and it's not just tech people who care about it. It doesn't require any knowledge of tech to understand. On the other hand, she knows how to use FB messenger and my efforts to get her to switch to email/telegram have just caused confusion so far.
- dvtrn 6y ago
  Am I off the mark in guessing your mother, in her 70’s has some strong opinions about one Senator Joe McCarthy or Hoover? Has she ever spoken much about living through that period-assuming your family are American? My apologies for the imposition if that’s not the case.
  - sthnblllII 6y ago
    J Edger Hoover was a cross dressing homosexual who collected blackmail on political opponents while he was himself being blackmailed by organized crime. https://www.mojeek.com/search?q=j+edgar+hoover+blackmail https://www.mojeek.com/search?q=j+edgar+hoover+blackmail
    - LordDragonfang 6y ago
      Most of the search results on that page are pretty sketchy, the top result is a tripod site and one is literally a school paper.
      - sthnblllII 6y ago
        https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/five-myths-about-j-edgar-hoover/2011/11/07/gIQASLlo5M_story.html?utm_term=.a6daf93ea26f https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/five-myths-about-j-e... They call everything "a myth" and then cite strong circumstantial and testimonial evidence that those "myths" are true, only to dismiss everything with hand waving about how "we'll never know" what his extremely private and mysterious sex life was like. Give me a break.

chupchap 6y ago

Telegram is getting really popular in India for bigger groups such as those in building societies and for parents in schools as they allow for more members. For one to one communication I don't see a change happening soon.

cat199 6y ago

> cross-platform messaging was new. when was cross-platform messaging ever new? ... IRC, AIM, etc ...

beagle3 6y ago
Neither was effectively available on phones ever. This is in relation to iMessage vs BBM vs whatever was popular on Android at the time. (And they got on boarding, group functionality and UI better than anyone for a very long time)

decrypt 6y ago

I remember paying a dollar to use WhatsApp for an year. I wish it remained independent and subscription-supported.