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Telegram always has encryption, just no end-to-end encryption by default. This is a privacy/convenience trade-off. When chatting about groceries/memes/latest Ne

Telegram always has encryption, just no end-to-end encryption by default. This is a privacy/convenience trade-off. When chatting about groceries/memes/latest Netflix releases, you don't really need E2EE that much, and chats without E2EE are synced to all devices in Telegram, including a fully-supported desktop app.

bigiain 6y ago
I get this argument, but for me, needing to moderate conversations "chatting about groceries/memes/latest Netflix releases," to make sure they don't edge into discussions I'd _really_ rather have E2E encrypted is something I just _know_ will go wrong for some of the participants in chat sooner or later. _That's_ a convenience tradeoff in favour of E2E by default for me. (But yeah, not for most people...)
Barrin92 6y ago
I'm willing to bet you money that virtually nobody adjusts their privacy settings based on topic of conversation, especially not non-tech people which is almost all users. I don't think I've ever seen anyone chat with their girlfriend and go "hey, grocery talk over, switch to e2ee now". Defaults matter and I'm certain almost no telegram conversations use e2ee as a consequence, with private info or otherwise. It's important to have it as a default and to tell people why they should use an app that does.
- wruza 6y ago
  It’s also important to have an option to turn it off, to benefit from mass-grouping (whatsapp limits groups to 256 users, lurking or not), chat history (new group participants can’t scroll up in whatsapp) and easy continuity (phone/pc job use case). Also it is not clear if whatsapp implements the same: - forward secrecy - self-destruction - forced destruction as telegram does. E.g. whatsapp seems to only have an option for 7 day self-destruction, which may be too long for some use cases, and no instant destruction. Neither of two are superior privacy-wise all things considered, but stating that always-on e2ee is a most important thing is probably naive. And then you have tg bots, ui/keyboards, stickers, etc which for a regular user outweigh the security area entirely. Also your virtual bet is lost because every time my circle discusses ‘hot’ topics in telegram (company issues, lawyer/audit-related chats, recreational drug use, etc), we go secret and warn users who do otherwise. We can’t check whether that is common or not, because those who have to be ‘secret’ may resist to admit this activity.

bigiain 6y ago

I get this argument, but for me, needing to moderate conversations "chatting about groceries/memes/latest Netflix releases," to make sure they don't edge into discussions I'd _really_ rather have E2E encrypted is something I just _know_ will go wrong for some of the participants in chat sooner or later. _That's_ a convenience tradeoff in favour of E2E by default for me. (But yeah, not for most people...)

Barrin92 6y ago

I'm willing to bet you money that virtually nobody adjusts their privacy settings based on topic of conversation, especially not non-tech people which is almost all users. I don't think I've ever seen anyone chat with their girlfriend and go "hey, grocery talk over, switch to e2ee now". Defaults matter and I'm certain almost no telegram conversations use e2ee as a consequence, with private info or otherwise. It's important to have it as a default and to tell people why they should use an app that does.

wruza 6y ago
It’s also important to have an option to turn it off, to benefit from mass-grouping (whatsapp limits groups to 256 users, lurking or not), chat history (new group participants can’t scroll up in whatsapp) and easy continuity (phone/pc job use case). Also it is not clear if whatsapp implements the same: - forward secrecy - self-destruction - forced destruction as telegram does. E.g. whatsapp seems to only have an option for 7 day self-destruction, which may be too long for some use cases, and no instant destruction. Neither of two are superior privacy-wise all things considered, but stating that always-on e2ee is a most important thing is probably naive. And then you have tg bots, ui/keyboards, stickers, etc which for a regular user outweigh the security area entirely. Also your virtual bet is lost because every time my circle discusses ‘hot’ topics in telegram (company issues, lawyer/audit-related chats, recreational drug use, etc), we go secret and warn users who do otherwise. We can’t check whether that is common or not, because those who have to be ‘secret’ may resist to admit this activity.