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Education has changed. Our educational institutions used to be a bastion of free speech where tolerance for disagreement was treasured. This is not the case tod

Education has changed. Our educational institutions used to be a bastion of free speech where tolerance for disagreement was treasured. This is not the case today, where merely speaking disagreement to the majority narrative gets your professorship cancelled and gets students disciplined.

georgebcrawford 6y ago
I see this repeated constantly - how many cases have there been? I'm asking genuinely.
- coryfklein 6y ago
  Funny you should ask, because I just happened to see Robin Hanson share [0] the exact statistics on this today. 2020: 64 2019: 11 2018: 13 2017: 9 2016: 4 2015: 4 [0] https://twitter.com/robinhanson/status/1346656330149470211 https://twitter.com/robinhanson/status/1346656330149470211
  - tfehring 6y ago
    Just glancing at the linked spreadsheet, I see way more than 4 events in 2020 for which termination is pretty clearly justified and necessary, so this trend seems to be driven at least in part by a change in behavior by professors and not just others' responses to that behavior. Also worth mentioning that the majority of the listed professors don't seem to have actually been fired or even disciplined - unsuccessful petitions and the like are included.
    - joe5150 6y ago
      it's also the case that some groups have become hyper-vigilant about academic "cancellations" in the last several years, which could account for why so many purported incidents have occurred since more attention is being paid to the issue. I don't see any evidence that this spreadsheet is the result of someone systematically reviewing every case of a professor or other academic being dismissed, rebuked or whatever since 2014, so I don't really see how it could constitute a trend.
  - joe5150 6y ago
    seeing a lot of people in this list "denounced in an open letter", "petitioned for firing" and the like. maybe we have different ideas about what it means to be "cancelled".
- munk-a 6y ago
  Even outside of explicit censorship I think that the US education system has been doing a very poor job lately in terms of promoting critical thinking skills. It's too common to see folks come out of the educational system with too much faith put in "both-sides-ism" it's important to empathize and understand different viewpoints but it is lazy to accept all differing views as being equally valid.
onlyrealcuzzo 6y ago
I say batshit insane crazy stuff all the time that in hind-sight I didn't mean at all. Probably, I should work on thinking more before I speak. But - I like to speak my mind - even if it gets me in trouble some times. I do think it's a problem that a lot of employees can and do get fired over saying dumb stuff - a lot of times that they didn't mean to say. Does this include Trump's famous "Grab them by the p#$$y" comment? Maybe. However, there's this idea that people should basically be able to send out hate speech memos in a company and not be apprehended for "speaking their mind". These are completely different. One of them is premeditated idiocracy. The other is a mistake. We shouldn't confuse the two.
rootusrootus 6y ago
Now tell me which side destroyed education.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
colinmhayes 6y ago
The only examples of this that I know of are literal holocaust deniers. I have never seen a professor with an argument that can be backed up with any amount of facts be disciplined.
mcguire 6y ago
"Our educational institutions used to be a bastion of free speech where tolerance for disagreement was treasured." Do you have a specific citation for that? There was Kent State. Before that they were racially and earlier, sexually, ethnically, and religiously, segregated. What specific time period are you thinking of?
8note 6y ago
In what time frame though? For instance, Galileo was not treated well for going against conventional wisdom, and nobody liked vis viva because it wasnt newton's momentum. Are there people losing their jobs and being cancelled for going against the Copenhagen interpretation today? Back in the 50s and 60s, Pete Seeger was banned from performing to anyone but young children by the FBI because he may have been a member of the Communist party -- including at educational institutions. Is that still happening today? Has that changed or something? What's the difference in analytic technique that has changed since that time period? People are still writing essays, running experiments and measuring p values. These are still the methods being taught, too

georgebcrawford 6y ago

I see this repeated constantly - how many cases have there been? I'm asking genuinely.

coryfklein 6y ago
Funny you should ask, because I just happened to see Robin Hanson share [0] the exact statistics on this today. 2020: 64 2019: 11 2018: 13 2017: 9 2016: 4 2015: 4 [0] https://twitter.com/robinhanson/status/1346656330149470211 https://twitter.com/robinhanson/status/1346656330149470211
- tfehring 6y ago
  Just glancing at the linked spreadsheet, I see way more than 4 events in 2020 for which termination is pretty clearly justified and necessary, so this trend seems to be driven at least in part by a change in behavior by professors and not just others' responses to that behavior. Also worth mentioning that the majority of the listed professors don't seem to have actually been fired or even disciplined - unsuccessful petitions and the like are included.
  - joe5150 6y ago
    it's also the case that some groups have become hyper-vigilant about academic "cancellations" in the last several years, which could account for why so many purported incidents have occurred since more attention is being paid to the issue. I don't see any evidence that this spreadsheet is the result of someone systematically reviewing every case of a professor or other academic being dismissed, rebuked or whatever since 2014, so I don't really see how it could constitute a trend.
- joe5150 6y ago
  seeing a lot of people in this list "denounced in an open letter", "petitioned for firing" and the like. maybe we have different ideas about what it means to be "cancelled".
munk-a 6y ago
Even outside of explicit censorship I think that the US education system has been doing a very poor job lately in terms of promoting critical thinking skills. It's too common to see folks come out of the educational system with too much faith put in "both-sides-ism" it's important to empathize and understand different viewpoints but it is lazy to accept all differing views as being equally valid.

onlyrealcuzzo 6y ago

I say batshit insane crazy stuff all the time that in hind-sight I didn't mean at all. Probably, I should work on thinking more before I speak. But - I like to speak my mind - even if it gets me in trouble some times. I do think it's a problem that a lot of employees can and do get fired over saying dumb stuff - a lot of times that they didn't mean to say. Does this include Trump's famous "Grab them by the p#$$y" comment? Maybe. However, there's this idea that people should basically be able to send out hate speech memos in a company and not be apprehended for "speaking their mind". These are completely different. One of them is premeditated idiocracy. The other is a mistake. We shouldn't confuse the two.

rootusrootus 6y ago

Now tell me which side destroyed education.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

colinmhayes 6y ago

The only examples of this that I know of are literal holocaust deniers. I have never seen a professor with an argument that can be backed up with any amount of facts be disciplined.

mcguire 6y ago

"Our educational institutions used to be a bastion of free speech where tolerance for disagreement was treasured." Do you have a specific citation for that? There was Kent State. Before that they were racially and earlier, sexually, ethnically, and religiously, segregated. What specific time period are you thinking of?

8note 6y ago

In what time frame though? For instance, Galileo was not treated well for going against conventional wisdom, and nobody liked vis viva because it wasnt newton's momentum. Are there people losing their jobs and being cancelled for going against the Copenhagen interpretation today? Back in the 50s and 60s, Pete Seeger was banned from performing to anyone but young children by the FBI because he may have been a member of the Communist party -- including at educational institutions. Is that still happening today? Has that changed or something? What's the difference in analytic technique that has changed since that time period? People are still writing essays, running experiments and measuring p values. These are still the methods being taught, too