8 ms·

Microsoft Office 97 clipart converted to SVG

88 points by networked 6y ago

cosmotic 6y ago
Interesting choice to convert to SVG. WMF are smaller files and the specification has been released in 2017. LibreOffice supports importing/exporting and numerous other libraries also support the format.
- jjcm 6y ago
  For an archival format though, SVG is likely a better choice. The small difference in size is worth it for long term accessibility.
  - zokier 6y ago
    Except the conversion process is (never) quite perfect, so that's why I prefer original files with known provenance. Just a random example, check out Popular/tennis.{svg,wmf}. And that is just something that is pretty obviously wrong, more worrisome are cases that are more subtly broken.
    - chris_wot 6y ago
      I've been working on the WMF/EMF/EMF+ code, where there is a problem log a bug with LibreOffice.
      - networked 6y ago
        Thanks for pointing this out. It looks like LibreOffice may handle complex graphics better than wmf2svg. You can do batch conversion with it, too. libreoffice --headless --convert-to svg Popular/tennis.wmf However, I haven't found a way to preserve the original canvas size. It seems you need to crop the image separately. inkscape --with-gui --verb FitCanvasToDrawing --verb FileSave --verb FileQuit tennis.svg I'll try this method and upload the LibreOffice conversions in their own archive if they look good. Edit: They look good so far. I'll upload them as SVG-LibreOffice.zip when they are done.
        chris_wot 6y ago
        Any chance you can lodge a bug about the canvas size? It's a bit of a deep bucket, but good to have the issue lodged so eventually we can fix the issue.
        networked 6y ago
        It doesn't seem like a bug, more of a missing feature in Draw. What I mean by "not preserving the original canvas size" is that when you run libreoffice some-image.ext, Draw doesn't adjust the page size to the image; it puts the image on its default size page. There are several related feature requests in the issue tracker (though none specifically for headless mode). The most relevant is https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=81118 https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=81118, which asks for a feature to fit the page size to the drawing. https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49787 https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49787 asks for different page sizes in a single document, which would make it possible to create a page of its exact size for every imported image as a default. The comment https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=112888#c1 https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=112888#c... links to several more.
  - dehrmann 6y ago
    I recently digitized some VHS tapes, and settled on webm/vp9/opus (and DVD) as a lossy archival format because, like SVG, browsers support it, so it'll be around for a long time.
  - cosmotic 6y ago
    I'm not so sure about that. I don't believe there's a reference implementation. SVG has also changed over time and is much more complex. WMF is stable and reliable with a reference implementation.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- networked 6y ago
  The WMF originals are included in Clipart.zip with the rest of Microsoft Clipart Extra. I made the SVG conversion thinking people may want to use the clipart on the Web and because more programs support SVG than WMF. After trying several conversion tools I settled on https://github.com/hidekatsu-izuno/wmf2svg https://github.com/hidekatsu-izuno/wmf2svg. It was the best in terms of quality (the backgrounds were properly transparent when they should be, for example) and targeted a vector format.
- taffer 6y ago
  > WMF are smaller files Depends. bestfrnd.wmf is 65 kB and 35 kB gzipped. bestfrnd.svg is 163 kB but after running it through SVGO it is just 87kB and 18 kB gzipped.
zokier 6y ago
Standard note that this is obviously still fully under MS copyright, so distributing the set is in the gray area at best. Just fyi if you got idea to use these anywhere, then I'd just shelve that and use some properly cleared images instead.
- mark-r 6y ago
  I don't think there's anything gray about it. I'd hate to be on the bad side of a bunch of Microsoft's lawyers. Even if there's no perceivable harm from having the collection available, the lawyers will be forced to take it down just to protect their rights in other cases.
  - colmvp 6y ago
    > I'd hate to be on the bad side of a bunch of Microsoft's lawyers. Or worse: They might send Clippy
  - DoctorOW 6y ago
    So IANAL but could you use this if you owned MS Office? Presumably there is some kind of license for clip art specifically since it's for reuse.
    - colejohnson66 6y ago
      So, I looked it up, and this seems to be the important part:[a][0] > 3. You may use clip art for personal, noncommercial uses. So, that’s that. A personal website or blog is ok, but not a commercial website.[b] [a]: Couldn’t find it in a quick skim on the EULA [b]: So it seems years ago, a lot of mom and pop shops violated that part... [0]: https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_vista-windows_programs/what-are-the-copyright-rules-concerning-use-of/741f069b-a52e-4688-b19e-dee05180fc3a https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_vi...
      - dehrmann 6y ago
        Wow, that feels like BS. They sell a product called "Office" to businesses, then say parts of it weren't licensed for commercial use. Then you have to ask how the bundled fonts were licensed, because it'd be weird to license those for commercial use, but not the clipart.
tombert 6y ago
Wow! As a kid I used to play with the "group" and "ungroup" feature for clipart for Screen Beans, sometimes with circles of them sacrificing animals or something. I was a weird kid. I will definitely need to play with this over the weekend.
watersb 6y ago
lovely. I taught a class in 1996 using those human bean figures. A few slides into the class, people were stifling laughter. My take on Windows NT Server Administration might have been a joke, but I wasn't trying to be funny. Puzzled by this reaction, I stopped asked just asked the class: what was so funny? I wasn't angry at all, but I wanted to know. "Um, those guys are pissing on your server." Can't unsee. Dang.
- badsectoracula 6y ago
  Which figures? I can't see any one of the bean figures that look like pissing :-P
  - column 6y ago
    I think he means the one that is in the link of OP, this one http://www.404techsupport.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/clip-art-featured.png http://www.404techsupport.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/cli... If you have a twisted mind, the hand can be seen as a detached penis
    - Minor49er 6y ago
      This one seems worse: https://clipground.com/images/screen-beans-clip-art-download-6.jpg https://clipground.com/images/screen-beans-clip-art-download...
skibz 6y ago
None of the filenames appear to exceed eight characters in length. Did filesystems for Windows have a limit back then?
- pjmlp 6y ago
  If the clipart was to be usable by the Windows 3.x versions, or Windows 95 running on FAT, if I remember correctly.
  - whizzter 6y ago
    Iirc long-filenames are stored as "invalid" directory entries regardless of FAT12/16/32 so if you had win95+ then long-filenames was everywhere (although not entirely sure but i guess win3.x/old dos could corrupt the extended part even if the short-form always was valid)
- jansan 6y ago
  yessir, 8 characters filename plus 3 characters file name extension. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8.3_filename https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8.3_filename

88 points by networked 6y ago

Interesting choice to convert to SVG. WMF are smaller files and the specification has been released in 2017. LibreOffice supports importing/exporting and numerous other libraries also support the format.

jjcm 6y ago
For an archival format though, SVG is likely a better choice. The small difference in size is worth it for long term accessibility.
- zokier 6y ago
  Except the conversion process is (never) quite perfect, so that's why I prefer original files with known provenance. Just a random example, check out Popular/tennis.{svg,wmf}. And that is just something that is pretty obviously wrong, more worrisome are cases that are more subtly broken.
  - chris_wot 6y ago
    I've been working on the WMF/EMF/EMF+ code, where there is a problem log a bug with LibreOffice.
    - networked 6y ago
      Thanks for pointing this out. It looks like LibreOffice may handle complex graphics better than wmf2svg. You can do batch conversion with it, too. libreoffice --headless --convert-to svg Popular/tennis.wmf However, I haven't found a way to preserve the original canvas size. It seems you need to crop the image separately. inkscape --with-gui --verb FitCanvasToDrawing --verb FileSave --verb FileQuit tennis.svg I'll try this method and upload the LibreOffice conversions in their own archive if they look good. Edit: They look good so far. I'll upload them as SVG-LibreOffice.zip when they are done.
      - chris_wot 6y ago
        Any chance you can lodge a bug about the canvas size? It's a bit of a deep bucket, but good to have the issue lodged so eventually we can fix the issue.
        networked 6y ago
        It doesn't seem like a bug, more of a missing feature in Draw. What I mean by "not preserving the original canvas size" is that when you run libreoffice some-image.ext, Draw doesn't adjust the page size to the image; it puts the image on its default size page. There are several related feature requests in the issue tracker (though none specifically for headless mode). The most relevant is https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=81118 https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=81118, which asks for a feature to fit the page size to the drawing. https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49787 https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49787 asks for different page sizes in a single document, which would make it possible to create a page of its exact size for every imported image as a default. The comment https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=112888#c1 https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=112888#c... links to several more.
- dehrmann 6y ago
  I recently digitized some VHS tapes, and settled on webm/vp9/opus (and DVD) as a lossy archival format because, like SVG, browsers support it, so it'll be around for a long time.
- cosmotic 6y ago
  I'm not so sure about that. I don't believe there's a reference implementation. SVG has also changed over time and is much more complex. WMF is stable and reliable with a reference implementation.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
networked 6y ago
The WMF originals are included in Clipart.zip with the rest of Microsoft Clipart Extra. I made the SVG conversion thinking people may want to use the clipart on the Web and because more programs support SVG than WMF. After trying several conversion tools I settled on https://github.com/hidekatsu-izuno/wmf2svg https://github.com/hidekatsu-izuno/wmf2svg. It was the best in terms of quality (the backgrounds were properly transparent when they should be, for example) and targeted a vector format.
taffer 6y ago
> WMF are smaller files Depends. bestfrnd.wmf is 65 kB and 35 kB gzipped. bestfrnd.svg is 163 kB but after running it through SVGO it is just 87kB and 18 kB gzipped.

zokier 6y ago

Standard note that this is obviously still fully under MS copyright, so distributing the set is in the gray area at best. Just fyi if you got idea to use these anywhere, then I'd just shelve that and use some properly cleared images instead.

mark-r 6y ago
I don't think there's anything gray about it. I'd hate to be on the bad side of a bunch of Microsoft's lawyers. Even if there's no perceivable harm from having the collection available, the lawyers will be forced to take it down just to protect their rights in other cases.
- colmvp 6y ago
  > I'd hate to be on the bad side of a bunch of Microsoft's lawyers. Or worse: They might send Clippy
- DoctorOW 6y ago
  So IANAL but could you use this if you owned MS Office? Presumably there is some kind of license for clip art specifically since it's for reuse.
  - colejohnson66 6y ago
    So, I looked it up, and this seems to be the important part:[a][0] > 3. You may use clip art for personal, noncommercial uses. So, that’s that. A personal website or blog is ok, but not a commercial website.[b] [a]: Couldn’t find it in a quick skim on the EULA [b]: So it seems years ago, a lot of mom and pop shops violated that part... [0]: https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_vista-windows_programs/what-are-the-copyright-rules-concerning-use-of/741f069b-a52e-4688-b19e-dee05180fc3a https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_vi...
    - dehrmann 6y ago
      Wow, that feels like BS. They sell a product called "Office" to businesses, then say parts of it weren't licensed for commercial use. Then you have to ask how the bundled fonts were licensed, because it'd be weird to license those for commercial use, but not the clipart.

tombert 6y ago

Wow! As a kid I used to play with the "group" and "ungroup" feature for clipart for Screen Beans, sometimes with circles of them sacrificing animals or something. I was a weird kid. I will definitely need to play with this over the weekend.

watersb 6y ago

lovely. I taught a class in 1996 using those human bean figures. A few slides into the class, people were stifling laughter. My take on Windows NT Server Administration might have been a joke, but I wasn't trying to be funny. Puzzled by this reaction, I stopped asked just asked the class: what was so funny? I wasn't angry at all, but I wanted to know. "Um, those guys are pissing on your server." Can't unsee. Dang.

badsectoracula 6y ago
Which figures? I can't see any one of the bean figures that look like pissing :-P
- column 6y ago
  I think he means the one that is in the link of OP, this one http://www.404techsupport.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/clip-art-featured.png http://www.404techsupport.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/cli... If you have a twisted mind, the hand can be seen as a detached penis
  - Minor49er 6y ago
    This one seems worse: https://clipground.com/images/screen-beans-clip-art-download-6.jpg https://clipground.com/images/screen-beans-clip-art-download...

skibz 6y ago

None of the filenames appear to exceed eight characters in length. Did filesystems for Windows have a limit back then?

pjmlp 6y ago
If the clipart was to be usable by the Windows 3.x versions, or Windows 95 running on FAT, if I remember correctly.
- whizzter 6y ago
  Iirc long-filenames are stored as "invalid" directory entries regardless of FAT12/16/32 so if you had win95+ then long-filenames was everywhere (although not entirely sure but i guess win3.x/old dos could corrupt the extended part even if the short-form always was valid)
jansan 6y ago
yessir, 8 characters filename plus 3 characters file name extension. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8.3_filename https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8.3_filename