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The cops pulled out before that happened, and it was quite peaceful there while that was going on. It's really not the same situation.

viridian 6y ago
I'm not defending what's going on here, but CHAZ/CHOP had a higher murder rate than Somalia because of unelected volunteer "private security". Not sure how you see that as peaceful.
- ubercore 6y ago
  Source, please. For both parts of that claim.
  - themaninthedark 6y ago
    I'm sure that was hyperbole, CHAZ/CHOP has 2 deaths and 4 wounded in a 24 day period. So the murder rate is 2/24=0.0833_ Somalia had a murder rate of 599 deaths in 2015. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate#By_country,_region,_or_dependent_territory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intention... 599/365=1.641 That being said, at least 1 of the killings at the CHAZ/CHOP was by the self proclaimed security forces. As far as I know no one has ever been identified or held accountable. If the idea is that you do not need police/ want to hold them to greater accountability because they are violent and kill innocent people but your replacement does the same thing...then what is the point?
    - bumby 6y ago
      Murder rates are typically reported on a per capita basis, not per day rate. Siri is reporting CHAZ had a population of 80(??) and Somolia a population of 15MM. The respective per capita rates would be 0.025 and ~3.99e-5
      - themaninthedark 6y ago
        I apologize, some how I misread the parent as saying that there were more murders per day.... I am not sure how I misread that.
        bumby 6y ago
        No reason to apologize, just trying to add some context/clarity
    - viridian 6y ago
      Murder rate is a per capita statistic. Larger populations have more of all types of crime, almost by definition.
      - themaninthedark 6y ago
        I know that, for some reason I had misread the parent as saying that more murders occurred per day. My brain may have translated rate as change over time....
    - 8note 6y ago
      At least one of them was also by a cop's buddy, who drove in, shot somebody then wandered over to the cops for a high five and to be arrested.
umvi 6y ago
> and it was quite peaceful and also quite illegal and a complete breakdown of rule of law
paulnechifor 6y ago
It was peaceful. Very few people got murdered.
ALittleLight 6y ago
Quite peaceful? There were four shootings in ten days and at least two people killed [1]. I personally went there and within a span of an hour or so that I was there I saw a woman screaming about how she had been raped and I saw a mob of people violently ejecting a street preacher. 1 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitol_Hill_Autonomous_Zone#Shootings https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitol_Hill_Autonomous_Zone#S...
- delecti 6y ago
  In comparison to the violence that was going on before the cops pulled out of their precinct, it was definitely more peaceful. It was also many orders of magnitude more peaceful than the current situation at the Capitol.
  - ALittleLight 6y ago
    There were somewhere between 1 and 10 thousand people living in the zone. If we assume it was 10 thousand, and there were 2 murders inside of 10 days, then that works out to a rate of 73 (2*36.5) murders per year per 10k people, or 730 murders per 100k. That's approximately 7 times the rate of the most murderous city in the world[1]. I don't know what the murder rate in the neighborhood was prior to the occupation, but I'm pretty confident it wasn't nearly that high. 1 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_by_murder_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_by_murder_rate
  - kortilla 6y ago
    What? More people were murdered there than at the capitol.
daenz 6y ago
I lived a block away from the CHAZ/CHOP and while it was mostly peaceful during the day, it was angry, aggressive, and deadly at night. I took video of a mob of people brutalizing (pushing to the ground, pinning on the ground) a Christian street preacher in broad daylight because they didn't like his annoying speech. At night, for days at a time, there were gunshots and people getting shot. If you think it was "quite peaceful" there, then you're getting your information from a severely biased source. I lived there and spent more time there than probably any of your sources.
- delecti 6y ago
  My source is me, I live 3 blocks from it. Things were for sure a lot quieter at night with CHAZ/CHOP going on than they were in the week prior to it.
  - daenz 6y ago
    Are you saying it was "quite peaceful" in absolute terms or relative to other extreme events? I took it to mean absolute terms, but I want to give you the benefit of the doubt. If you lived there as I did, I don't see how anyone could look at the CHOP and say it was "quite peaceful" in absolute terms (eg, relative to an average day).
    - delecti 6y ago
      Bit of both. The week before the CHOP started was full the sounds of helicopters overhead, flashbang explosions, and "less lethal" rounds being fired. The week after CHOP started was quiet. Comparing the shift from yesterday to today in DC's Capitol Hill against the shift from June 7 to June 8 in Seattle's Capitol Hill, the CHOP was extraordinarily peaceful. That's mostly the comparison I was making by initially saying it was "quite peaceful": the day before and the day after in those two locations. But even then, the CHOP compared to the same location today (for example) is honestly pretty similarly peaceful. It was certainly a relatively violent time for that street, but I didn't feel at all at risk walking through it. I also didn't have any problem living 3 blocks away from a place that many news agencies tried to construe as violent anarchy.

viridian 6y ago

I'm not defending what's going on here, but CHAZ/CHOP had a higher murder rate than Somalia because of unelected volunteer "private security". Not sure how you see that as peaceful.

ubercore 6y ago
Source, please. For both parts of that claim.
- themaninthedark 6y ago
  I'm sure that was hyperbole, CHAZ/CHOP has 2 deaths and 4 wounded in a 24 day period. So the murder rate is 2/24=0.0833_ Somalia had a murder rate of 599 deaths in 2015. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate#By_country,_region,_or_dependent_territory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intention... 599/365=1.641 That being said, at least 1 of the killings at the CHAZ/CHOP was by the self proclaimed security forces. As far as I know no one has ever been identified or held accountable. If the idea is that you do not need police/ want to hold them to greater accountability because they are violent and kill innocent people but your replacement does the same thing...then what is the point?
  - bumby 6y ago
    Murder rates are typically reported on a per capita basis, not per day rate. Siri is reporting CHAZ had a population of 80(??) and Somolia a population of 15MM. The respective per capita rates would be 0.025 and ~3.99e-5
    - themaninthedark 6y ago
      I apologize, some how I misread the parent as saying that there were more murders per day.... I am not sure how I misread that.
      - bumby 6y ago
        No reason to apologize, just trying to add some context/clarity
  - viridian 6y ago
    Murder rate is a per capita statistic. Larger populations have more of all types of crime, almost by definition.
    - themaninthedark 6y ago
      I know that, for some reason I had misread the parent as saying that more murders occurred per day. My brain may have translated rate as change over time....
  - 8note 6y ago
    At least one of them was also by a cop's buddy, who drove in, shot somebody then wandered over to the cops for a high five and to be arrested.

umvi 6y ago

> and it was quite peaceful and also quite illegal and a complete breakdown of rule of law

paulnechifor 6y ago

It was peaceful. Very few people got murdered.

ALittleLight 6y ago

Quite peaceful? There were four shootings in ten days and at least two people killed [1]. I personally went there and within a span of an hour or so that I was there I saw a woman screaming about how she had been raped and I saw a mob of people violently ejecting a street preacher. 1 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitol_Hill_Autonomous_Zone#Shootings https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitol_Hill_Autonomous_Zone#S...

delecti 6y ago
In comparison to the violence that was going on before the cops pulled out of their precinct, it was definitely more peaceful. It was also many orders of magnitude more peaceful than the current situation at the Capitol.
- ALittleLight 6y ago
  There were somewhere between 1 and 10 thousand people living in the zone. If we assume it was 10 thousand, and there were 2 murders inside of 10 days, then that works out to a rate of 73 (2*36.5) murders per year per 10k people, or 730 murders per 100k. That's approximately 7 times the rate of the most murderous city in the world[1]. I don't know what the murder rate in the neighborhood was prior to the occupation, but I'm pretty confident it wasn't nearly that high. 1 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_by_murder_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_by_murder_rate
- kortilla 6y ago
  What? More people were murdered there than at the capitol.

daenz 6y ago

I lived a block away from the CHAZ/CHOP and while it was mostly peaceful during the day, it was angry, aggressive, and deadly at night. I took video of a mob of people brutalizing (pushing to the ground, pinning on the ground) a Christian street preacher in broad daylight because they didn't like his annoying speech. At night, for days at a time, there were gunshots and people getting shot. If you think it was "quite peaceful" there, then you're getting your information from a severely biased source. I lived there and spent more time there than probably any of your sources.

delecti 6y ago
My source is me, I live 3 blocks from it. Things were for sure a lot quieter at night with CHAZ/CHOP going on than they were in the week prior to it.
- daenz 6y ago
  Are you saying it was "quite peaceful" in absolute terms or relative to other extreme events? I took it to mean absolute terms, but I want to give you the benefit of the doubt. If you lived there as I did, I don't see how anyone could look at the CHOP and say it was "quite peaceful" in absolute terms (eg, relative to an average day).
  - delecti 6y ago
    Bit of both. The week before the CHOP started was full the sounds of helicopters overhead, flashbang explosions, and "less lethal" rounds being fired. The week after CHOP started was quiet. Comparing the shift from yesterday to today in DC's Capitol Hill against the shift from June 7 to June 8 in Seattle's Capitol Hill, the CHOP was extraordinarily peaceful. That's mostly the comparison I was making by initially saying it was "quite peaceful": the day before and the day after in those two locations. But even then, the CHOP compared to the same location today (for example) is honestly pretty similarly peaceful. It was certainly a relatively violent time for that street, but I didn't feel at all at risk walking through it. I also didn't have any problem living 3 blocks away from a place that many news agencies tried to construe as violent anarchy.