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> THe employer still has a lot of power. You can be fired at a moment's notice and be forced into poverty. That's waaaaaay more power than a union has! Forgive

> THe employer still has a lot of power. You can be fired at a moment's notice and be forced into poverty. That's waaaaaay more power than a union has! Forgive my lack of knowledge, but is this just a US thing? It seems that you can be let go (from a permanent position; we'll not talk about contractors/casuals) very easily in the US, without much reasoning. To contrast, here in Australia, a part-time/full-time employee needs to be formally warned (and these need to be documented) three times before being 'fired', and there are many cases where Fair Work (a government body) has helped an employee take an employer to court in cases where the documentation was insufficient. Of course, that's a very high-level overview, but the message I constantly get is that you can be fired for really simple reasons in the US, without much recourse (lest you want to take it on yourself).

wisty 15y ago
Except, it seems, Woolworths, which just fired a bunch of employees for posting stupid planking photos on facebook. Unless they were casuals. But even causals can be treated, by courts, as full timers; depending on the circumstances.
tjmc 15y ago
Doesn't cover everyone though. Many Aussie employers use casual contracts for what are essentially full time positions.
lsc 15y ago
This is how it's supposed to work in America, there are certain reasons why I can't fire you; like race. But I can fire you for anything else. But in reality this only holds true at smaller firms. At larger firms, they still need to document, because if I fire you for some random reason (which is legal) you can sue me saying that I really fired you for an illegal reason This really only happens at larger firms, 'cause you could sue me, but you wouldn't get enough money out of the deal to properly pay your lawyer.
- schmittz 15y ago
  That's not true. A wrongful termination suit can be brought against any employer. Employment law is handled on a state by state basis. In most states, once an employee has worked for someone for 90 days, termination without documentation of attempted intervention or sufficient transgression represents sufficient ground for the terminated employee to be reinstated or compensated for damages. Small businesses tend to be less formal about handling employee termination because employees of small businesses are less likely to seek remuneration for wrongful termination. Also, wrongful termination suits can be rather large and generally require very little legal work on the plaintiff's part so most law firms pick up the case for no fee and instead a percentage cut of the settlement.
  - sliverstorm 15y ago
    He's essentially saying it's less of an issue for smaller companies, because they have less money.
beamso 15y ago
> To contrast, here in Australia, a part-time/full-time employee needs to be formally warned (and these need to be documented) three times before being 'fired' A small Australian business can fire someone immediately without any warnings. I think it's a company of under 50 employees at the moment. The number was increased under WorkChoices then dropped back again. A larger business can use exceptional circumstances to remove you instantly as well (breach of contract and along those lines).

wisty 15y ago

Except, it seems, Woolworths, which just fired a bunch of employees for posting stupid planking photos on facebook. Unless they were casuals. But even causals can be treated, by courts, as full timers; depending on the circumstances.

tjmc 15y ago

Doesn't cover everyone though. Many Aussie employers use casual contracts for what are essentially full time positions.

lsc 15y ago

This is how it's supposed to work in America, there are certain reasons why I can't fire you; like race. But I can fire you for anything else. But in reality this only holds true at smaller firms. At larger firms, they still need to document, because if I fire you for some random reason (which is legal) you can sue me saying that I really fired you for an illegal reason This really only happens at larger firms, 'cause you could sue me, but you wouldn't get enough money out of the deal to properly pay your lawyer.

schmittz 15y ago
That's not true. A wrongful termination suit can be brought against any employer. Employment law is handled on a state by state basis. In most states, once an employee has worked for someone for 90 days, termination without documentation of attempted intervention or sufficient transgression represents sufficient ground for the terminated employee to be reinstated or compensated for damages. Small businesses tend to be less formal about handling employee termination because employees of small businesses are less likely to seek remuneration for wrongful termination. Also, wrongful termination suits can be rather large and generally require very little legal work on the plaintiff's part so most law firms pick up the case for no fee and instead a percentage cut of the settlement.
- sliverstorm 15y ago
  He's essentially saying it's less of an issue for smaller companies, because they have less money.

beamso 15y ago

> To contrast, here in Australia, a part-time/full-time employee needs to be formally warned (and these need to be documented) three times before being 'fired' A small Australian business can fire someone immediately without any warnings. I think it's a company of under 50 employees at the moment. The number was increased under WorkChoices then dropped back again. A larger business can use exceptional circumstances to remove you instantly as well (breach of contract and along those lines).