7 ms·

Regardless of what view point you have, it's become painful to watch/consume news on either side if you don't subscribe to their same left/right view point as w

Regardless of what view point you have, it's become painful to watch/consume news on either side if you don't subscribe to their same left/right view point as what is being presented. The MSM has overplayed its hand over the past several years to the point they've been written off by their opposing sides. So that forces a dividing line so you don't even bother looking at the opposing news sources, and when ever you do it's so biased it makes your head spin. But hey, ratings are through the roof! That has allowed traditionally marginalized news sources that embrace less-vetted news to shine. Say what you want about Alex Jones, but he was covering Jeffery Epstein's lolita express/island in 2008 and no one would touch that story back then. So now we have the marginalized news sources ending up larger viewerships than the national evening news. So while you do get real news which is less skewed left or right than in the MSM, it is wrapped with plenty of crap and is less vetted. The news industry, politicians, and big tech censorship has made this problem. Now they get to lay in their beds. It sucks, I'm not a fan of what's going on in DC right now, but I also don't blame those doing what they feel they must for their country. They are merely products of the system that made them. Until the MSM and politicians decide to stop twisting everything for market share or political gain this will continue to escalate. And we know that won't happen sadly.

akiselev 6y ago
Please stop equating the "MSM" with the right wing propaganda machine like FOX. This hyperpolarization is happening in every country that has a sizable Murdoch media machine.
- zepto 6y ago
  It really isn’t just Fox. They don’t have a lot of shame about their partisanship or desire to hide it, but there is ideological distortion going on everywhere.
  - root_axis 6y ago
    Yes, everyone is biased, this is not a deep insight, it's the common denominator we can subtract from a meaningful discussion about specific events.
    - zepto 6y ago
      It actually is a deep insight if it’s true. It doesn’t matter very much if one side is more crass, or tells more obvious lies. It matters a lot if everybody has derelicted the attempt to represent views and understandings across the spectrum, and it’s important that we be able to distinguish that situation from just blaming a particular actor. Perhaps you have something deeper to offer though?
      - root_axis 6y ago
        Dishonest reporting is not a quality inherent to arbitrary political labels, there is no "spectrum", there are only "particular actors" and people decide in real time which particular actors they prefer to focus their attention on.
        zepto 6y ago
        > Dishonest reporting is not a quality inherent to arbitrary political label Agreed. > there is no "spectrum" Only true in a pedantic and useless sense. It certainly is possible to cluster and organize political preferences. > there are only "particular actors" and people decide in real time which particular actors they prefer to focus their attention on. Without further explanation this is just a frame which doesn’t add meaning on its own. Overall it’s not clear what you have added here.
        root_axis 6y ago
        > Only true in a pedantic and useless sense. No. It's true in the sense that you cannot impugn a particular part of the spectrum for the actions of individuals because there is no way to reliably quantify dishonesty much less attribute its distribution across a poorly defined political continuum. > Without further explanation this is just a frame which doesn’t add meaning on its own. In other words, dishonesty is everywhere and it's trivial to collate a mountain of cherry-picked evidence from a particular part of the continuum to support the conclusion that a certain part of the continuum is dishonest. > Overall it’s not clear what you have added here. Your pretentious snark is bad form and unnecessary.
- andrewstuart2 6y ago
  I don't know that I'd associate it with the right wing, though. All parties are currently guilty of what you might call overfitting, where medium-term profits are directly measured against the content generating those profits, which understandably eventually segments the population and fits content to what keeps them engaged.
- core-questions 6y ago
  Unfortunately, you've fallen into the trap, friend. FOX may be to the right of MSNBC, but on a larger scale historically-informed left-right spectrum, the two are not actually that far apart ideologically. Most "conservative principles" these days are just the modern liberal status quo delayed by ~20 years; for example, anti-homosexual rhetoric is dead and dying on that side in a way that lines up well with what I remember from the Democrats in the late 90s. The hyperpolarization is not to do with the right vs left dichotomy so much as it is a deliberate, encouraged-by-both-sides establishment of a false dichotomy designed to pen people into a small range of discourse. Some call this the Overton window; the deliberate establishment of contrasting narratives in a 2-pronged strategy was perfected in America by Arthur Finkelstein in the mid-20th century and is becoming an art form today. If you can see FOX as a "right wing propaganda machine" but can't see the other MSM networks as being equally polarizing machines aimed at a different half of the audience, you're missing the shot. The solution is to see the false dichotomy for what it is, look at who is pushing it, and look at what direction both "sides" actually push for. If you're on the right, they want you to have your attention and energy soaked up in this useless Stop the Steal push for Trump, who actually didn't accomplish any of the things his populist base asked for (immigration control, really bringing back American jobs, giving a shit about the working class). If you're on the Left, they want to soak you up with Biden instead of the more progressive policies that someone like Bernie or Tulsi Gabbard espoused. Either way, you're being played if you allow your energy to go toward supporting one of these useless figureheads instead of critiquing the system itself.
  - akiselev 6y ago
    You've fallen for the trap of the 2d political spectrum. It isn't about bias, it is about intent. MSNBC, CNN, etc are capitalist enterprises biased towards revenue and clicks - it's in their DNA. FOX was created explicitly by Ailes and Murdoch to prevent a second Nixon style teardown of the GOP. It's the reason Disney wanted absolutely nothing to do with the news arm when it acquired the rest of the Fox media empire - it's a capitalist enterprise only in the sense that it's profitable as a side effect of their main goal.
    - core-questions 6y ago
ethbr0 6y ago
After Trump was elected, I started checking Fox News regularly (my go-to's are the BBC and NPR). On the whole, I think it's been informative as to how others perceive the world. It was definitely interesting when their tone shifted on the election outcome.
- ocdtrekkie 6y ago
  > It was definitely interesting when their tone shifted on the election outcome. This was pretty intriguing to me, because I do believe Fox had a lot to do with the radicalization of their side of things. It drove their support, and the moment they backed off from the crazy train, people abandoned them in droves for whatever agreed with the direction they were heading, be it Newsmax or OAN. Fox brought on it's own downfall here.
- jhallenworld 6y ago
  I tune in the AM radio for this- the rhetoric on it now was only available on shortwave in the 90s. TYT and friends on youtube for the left's view- I can't stand MSNBC.
watwut 6y ago
No matter what is happening, it is important to remember that both sides are to blame. Always, no matter where the truth is relative to the sides.
miedpo 6y ago
As much as I'd like to blame the news (they are partially responsible, especially for keeping contention going), I think we as a people are also to blame. How often do we point to people with different points of view from us and say 'How Dare You!'. We could all cool it a bit, or at least be a little more generous, and I think people wouldn't be quite as alarmed, and this situation might be less likely. We've stoked the fires of emnity and now we're reaping the rewards. Just my two cents. Hope your having a good day.
- umvi 6y ago
  This strongly resonates with me. Somewhere along the way we allowed ourselves to lose more and more empathy and kindness toward people who think differently than us.
- ernst_klim 6y ago
  > I think we as a people are also to blame Honestly, I think it's only people to blame. No media would restrict you from just going to your neighbour who's having opposite values and views, and simply talk and try and understand. People voluntarily selected extreme toxic partisanship, media just feeding the hungry ones. Even half of this thread could be reduced to "these other people are just dumb their values are wrong that's the problem"
  - nitrogen 6y ago
    Naturally these things are mutually reinforcing in a vicious cycle. It's a little bit of all of the above. We probably can't point to a single root cause, or a single cure. Until we learn how to reason about massively distributed complex social feedback loops, the best we can do is try to address each systemic problem using our best selves.
polishdude20 6y ago
This reminds me of that video about a Russian spy being interviewed saying how Russia's spy efforts are being focused on making the USA population hate eachother. And I'm not saying this IS the result of Russia but it sure seems like this prediction is getting more true every day.

akiselev 6y ago

Please stop equating the "MSM" with the right wing propaganda machine like FOX. This hyperpolarization is happening in every country that has a sizable Murdoch media machine.

zepto 6y ago
It really isn’t just Fox. They don’t have a lot of shame about their partisanship or desire to hide it, but there is ideological distortion going on everywhere.
- root_axis 6y ago
  Yes, everyone is biased, this is not a deep insight, it's the common denominator we can subtract from a meaningful discussion about specific events.
  - zepto 6y ago
    It actually is a deep insight if it’s true. It doesn’t matter very much if one side is more crass, or tells more obvious lies. It matters a lot if everybody has derelicted the attempt to represent views and understandings across the spectrum, and it’s important that we be able to distinguish that situation from just blaming a particular actor. Perhaps you have something deeper to offer though?
    - root_axis 6y ago
      Dishonest reporting is not a quality inherent to arbitrary political labels, there is no "spectrum", there are only "particular actors" and people decide in real time which particular actors they prefer to focus their attention on.
      - zepto 6y ago
        > Dishonest reporting is not a quality inherent to arbitrary political label Agreed. > there is no "spectrum" Only true in a pedantic and useless sense. It certainly is possible to cluster and organize political preferences. > there are only "particular actors" and people decide in real time which particular actors they prefer to focus their attention on. Without further explanation this is just a frame which doesn’t add meaning on its own. Overall it’s not clear what you have added here.
        root_axis 6y ago
        > Only true in a pedantic and useless sense. No. It's true in the sense that you cannot impugn a particular part of the spectrum for the actions of individuals because there is no way to reliably quantify dishonesty much less attribute its distribution across a poorly defined political continuum. > Without further explanation this is just a frame which doesn’t add meaning on its own. In other words, dishonesty is everywhere and it's trivial to collate a mountain of cherry-picked evidence from a particular part of the continuum to support the conclusion that a certain part of the continuum is dishonest. > Overall it’s not clear what you have added here. Your pretentious snark is bad form and unnecessary.
andrewstuart2 6y ago
I don't know that I'd associate it with the right wing, though. All parties are currently guilty of what you might call overfitting, where medium-term profits are directly measured against the content generating those profits, which understandably eventually segments the population and fits content to what keeps them engaged.
core-questions 6y ago
Unfortunately, you've fallen into the trap, friend. FOX may be to the right of MSNBC, but on a larger scale historically-informed left-right spectrum, the two are not actually that far apart ideologically. Most "conservative principles" these days are just the modern liberal status quo delayed by ~20 years; for example, anti-homosexual rhetoric is dead and dying on that side in a way that lines up well with what I remember from the Democrats in the late 90s. The hyperpolarization is not to do with the right vs left dichotomy so much as it is a deliberate, encouraged-by-both-sides establishment of a false dichotomy designed to pen people into a small range of discourse. Some call this the Overton window; the deliberate establishment of contrasting narratives in a 2-pronged strategy was perfected in America by Arthur Finkelstein in the mid-20th century and is becoming an art form today. If you can see FOX as a "right wing propaganda machine" but can't see the other MSM networks as being equally polarizing machines aimed at a different half of the audience, you're missing the shot. The solution is to see the false dichotomy for what it is, look at who is pushing it, and look at what direction both "sides" actually push for. If you're on the right, they want you to have your attention and energy soaked up in this useless Stop the Steal push for Trump, who actually didn't accomplish any of the things his populist base asked for (immigration control, really bringing back American jobs, giving a shit about the working class). If you're on the Left, they want to soak you up with Biden instead of the more progressive policies that someone like Bernie or Tulsi Gabbard espoused. Either way, you're being played if you allow your energy to go toward supporting one of these useless figureheads instead of critiquing the system itself.
- akiselev 6y ago
  You've fallen for the trap of the 2d political spectrum. It isn't about bias, it is about intent. MSNBC, CNN, etc are capitalist enterprises biased towards revenue and clicks - it's in their DNA. FOX was created explicitly by Ailes and Murdoch to prevent a second Nixon style teardown of the GOP. It's the reason Disney wanted absolutely nothing to do with the news arm when it acquired the rest of the Fox media empire - it's a capitalist enterprise only in the sense that it's profitable as a side effect of their main goal.
  - core-questions 6y ago

ethbr0 6y ago

After Trump was elected, I started checking Fox News regularly (my go-to's are the BBC and NPR). On the whole, I think it's been informative as to how others perceive the world. It was definitely interesting when their tone shifted on the election outcome.

ocdtrekkie 6y ago
> It was definitely interesting when their tone shifted on the election outcome. This was pretty intriguing to me, because I do believe Fox had a lot to do with the radicalization of their side of things. It drove their support, and the moment they backed off from the crazy train, people abandoned them in droves for whatever agreed with the direction they were heading, be it Newsmax or OAN. Fox brought on it's own downfall here.
jhallenworld 6y ago
I tune in the AM radio for this- the rhetoric on it now was only available on shortwave in the 90s. TYT and friends on youtube for the left's view- I can't stand MSNBC.

watwut 6y ago

No matter what is happening, it is important to remember that both sides are to blame. Always, no matter where the truth is relative to the sides.

miedpo 6y ago

As much as I'd like to blame the news (they are partially responsible, especially for keeping contention going), I think we as a people are also to blame. How often do we point to people with different points of view from us and say 'How Dare You!'. We could all cool it a bit, or at least be a little more generous, and I think people wouldn't be quite as alarmed, and this situation might be less likely. We've stoked the fires of emnity and now we're reaping the rewards. Just my two cents. Hope your having a good day.

umvi 6y ago
This strongly resonates with me. Somewhere along the way we allowed ourselves to lose more and more empathy and kindness toward people who think differently than us.
ernst_klim 6y ago
> I think we as a people are also to blame Honestly, I think it's only people to blame. No media would restrict you from just going to your neighbour who's having opposite values and views, and simply talk and try and understand. People voluntarily selected extreme toxic partisanship, media just feeding the hungry ones. Even half of this thread could be reduced to "these other people are just dumb their values are wrong that's the problem"
- nitrogen 6y ago
  Naturally these things are mutually reinforcing in a vicious cycle. It's a little bit of all of the above. We probably can't point to a single root cause, or a single cure. Until we learn how to reason about massively distributed complex social feedback loops, the best we can do is try to address each systemic problem using our best selves.

polishdude20 6y ago

This reminds me of that video about a Russian spy being interviewed saying how Russia's spy efforts are being focused on making the USA population hate eachother. And I'm not saying this IS the result of Russia but it sure seems like this prediction is getting more true every day.