5 ms·

> My experience from being on both sides of the desk has been that devteams are relatively tolerant of candidates exhibiting personality quirks during the inter

> My experience from being on both sides of the desk has been that devteams are relatively tolerant of candidates exhibiting personality quirks during the interview process - it's the candidate's skills that are in demand, not their winning personality. I'm growing further and further away from this mentality in hiring because the sad truth is most of those folks who come in with "quirks" lack maturity. To me, quirks are "yellow flags" in the interview stage because it means that you're not able to put your own weirdness aside to fit socially when you arguably need to the most. Invariably these same "quirks" come up down the road in the employment with output problems, copping attitude with superiors, weirdness in internal/external meetings, and just general antisocial behavior. I get that we're all in hella demand right now but I'm starting to go back on my, "I'm just hiring for the engineering skill/talent" as an excuse to overlook yellow flags. The other thing is contextually, what are the quirks? If the "quirk" is someone being super shy/timid it doesn't even register on my radar as a problem unless it's extreme... I'm talking about the stereotypical "oh so cute dev quirks" like: not dressing appropriately for an interview, interrupting me/talking over me, talking down to me, comparing their last junior position to being Steve Jobs, being sing-songy, inappropriate jokes in any way/shape/form, getting in arguments with themselves... etc etc. I'm at a point that if you can't act 95% professional in your first interview you're done as you're not capable of being "on".

nicoburns 6y ago
> not dressing appropriately for an interview What is "dressing appropriately". I wore a suit to my very first interview for a dev position and very nearly didn't get the job because they were worried I wouldn't fit in (luckily I was able to explain that I don't usually wear a suit). The other ones in your list, sure. But I don't think those are what people typically means when they talk about quirks.
- folkhack 6y ago
  > I wore a suit to my very first interview for a dev position and very nearly didn't get the job because they were worried I wouldn't fit in Yeah - I hate this. I had people at my last position give candidates negative points because they wore a suit and I went $%&#ing ape. In positions that I've held in the past it's been the appropriate action to wear a suit due to heavily corporate environments, and I see it as 110% normal that someone puts on a nice suit for an interview. The action of wearing a suit (or tie for that matter) to an interview should never be seen as a "cultural fit" problem - I'm looking at you SV... Sorry that almost happened to you. That's some bullshit. --- Overall a nice well-fitting button down + a pair of well-fitting dress slacks is what I would recommend. Personally, I wear a slim fit brand new white button-down (ironed), nice dark blue chinos (ironed, not pleated), and not-scuffed brown wing-tips. Often I also wear a tie, but am considering not thanks to a derelict SF "big-wig" grilling me in an interview as to "why are you wearing a tie?" All I wanted to say is "does it matter?" (offender: you're reading this don't do that again.) Also get a solid hair cut, ensure you're shaved if male, and yeah - sit up and be confident while you're in the chair. Body language does matter, and your interviewer will subconsciously notice regardless if they're giving you a "pass" or not.
  - nicoburns 6y ago
    > The action of wearing a suit (or tie for that matter) to an interview should never be seen as a "cultural fit" problem I would agree and would go as far to say that dress in general should never be a hiring criteria for a non-customer facing position. Unless there are hygiene issues or they are wearing something actively offensive.
    - folkhack 6y ago
      I'm slightly more conservative - I've had people show up in t-shirt and jeans and have turned them away because I feel like they're breaking the social contract of what an interview is. Like - totally clean/non-offensive t-shirt and jeans. In a lot of my engineering roles I have had to be internal/external facing and do things like budget presentations, work with partners, etc. Before that, I was a general web/app dev and we would get pulled along to client meetings all the time to collect spec, ensure that it was a good sales fit, etc. I'm not saying I had to be fully decked-out but being able to throw on a button down and tuck it in means that you "fit-in" to these situations. For me, if someone is showing up in a t-shirt and jeans it's a red flag that you can't be bothered to dress semi-professionally which has been an occasional (but hard) requirement of me since day-1 of my career. 100% this all is anecdotal, and specific to my own needs/experiences.
      - bcrosby95 6y ago
        I would expect it to depend upon the company. Dress code doesn't really factor for me, but I've worked for the same place for a while now and we've always been 95% remote. Half of us just wear whatever we slept in the night before. Most people don't get dressed until lunch time. Even in the office it doesn't get much fancier than a t-shirt and jeans. I guess our tech lead wears a button down shirt, but his jeans usually have giant holes in them, so I would call that a wash. Expecting an interview candidate to wear something nice would feel a bit hypocritical.
      - bbbobbb 6y ago
        I think this is fair to both sides. I dress casually for interviews not only because that is what I prefer to wear but also in hopes of getting rejected by anybody who would consider that a red flag.
- Mauricebranagh 6y ago
  :-) I went to an interview (London UK) for a big name agency suited and booted and was interviewed by some one in a scruffy t shirt that looked like his dog had been sick on it. I sort of twigged that I was over dressed when on the way to the interview some one stopped me in the street and asked me the way to the "Ivy"
- izacus 6y ago
  Believe it or not, checking if the candidate is able to dress professionally and appropriately for the occasion is one of the major things being tested on most white collar job interviews.
- rnd33 6y ago
  Dressing appropriately does not mean "dressing up". It means dressing slightly above what is generally accepted as the normal dress code for the role your interviewing for, and the culture of the company. This is what makes it so hard, if it was just about putting a suit on everyone could do it. If you're completely unsure, just call the hiring manager and ask. "What's the dress code at company X?", "How do people in role X normally dress at your company?". No one will be mad at you for making an effort and trying fit into the culture.
- potta_coffee 6y ago
  I was treated poorly and mocked at an interview for wearing a sports coat over my jeans and t-shirt. Just can't win sometimes. In the end, not the kind of place I wanted to work.
manfredo 6y ago
What sort of "quirks" are we talking about? > interrupting me/talking over me, talking down to me, comparing their last junior position to being Steve Jobs, being sing-songy, inappropriate jokes in any way/shape/form, getting in arguments with themselves... etc etc. Besides being "sing-songy", none of these things are quirks, they're ineffective communication or untruthfulness of their past positions. As far as dress and "sing-songy" go, I would agree with the above poster: software development tends to be much more inclusive of these sorts of characteristics. Jeans and a T-shirt is perfectly acceptable attire for an interview. Do your software devs wear suits 5 days a week? Why expect a candidate to do so, either? A candidate I interviewed going, "uh-oh sphaghetti-oh!" when they hit a segfault when running their interviewing solution was kind of ridiculous, but ultimately has no impact on their contributions as a developer. Factoring in these kinds of thins into the hiring decisions is ultimately about including people from a culture similar to your own. Different cultures have different definitions of "weirdness" so selecting based on the ability of the candidate to identify what is "weirdness" is ultimately a cultural litmus test. And expecting male candidates to be shaved, as per your other comment, is just blatant cultural discrimination - some demographics like Sikhs could even sue you for illegal discrimination over this. This cuts both ways, both the case where a candidate in a T-shirt and jeans gets rejected for not wearing a suit and when a suited up candidate gets rejected for being too formal. Both ultimately hurt the company by excluding effective workers.
rusk 6y ago
> Invariably these same "quirks" come up down the road in the employment with output problems, copping attitude with superiors, weirdness in internal/external meetings, and just general antisocial behavior. Yep, I’ve been that guy! Had huge problems for a while. Mercifully my team/department/business put up with me for the most part, but I did have to suffer for a while. Learnt some invaluable lessons though and I’m quite happy to be a fitter happier and more productive individual! (Yes Radiohead reference but really not as bad as it seems:)
mcguire 6y ago
Personally, I don't really care how anyone dresses. (Oh, up to a point. One of the jobs I had evolved to, "No tube tops, bicycle shorts, or French maid outfits". The last two involved one senior hardware support guy.) But the other things? Oh, yeah. I've worked with (or attempted to) people like that, and I won't do it again. The first time a technical difference of opinion turns into a suicide threat, I'll just clean out my desk on my way out.
tremon 6y ago
To me, quirks are "yellow flags" in the interview stage because it means that you're not able to put your own weirdness aside to fit socially when you arguably need to the most My response from the other side of the table: as an interviewee, I view these initial interviews an an exercise in expectation management. I don't consider myself as weird, so I act like I normally would, otherwise I'm setting myself up for failure later on. Also, I don't wear to an interview what I wouldn't be comfortable wearing on a normal working day. I dress casual on purpose (but representably casual, not weird casual -- but that's my personal opinion of course).

nicoburns 6y ago

> not dressing appropriately for an interview What is "dressing appropriately". I wore a suit to my very first interview for a dev position and very nearly didn't get the job because they were worried I wouldn't fit in (luckily I was able to explain that I don't usually wear a suit). The other ones in your list, sure. But I don't think those are what people typically means when they talk about quirks.

folkhack 6y ago
> I wore a suit to my very first interview for a dev position and very nearly didn't get the job because they were worried I wouldn't fit in Yeah - I hate this. I had people at my last position give candidates negative points because they wore a suit and I went $%&#ing ape. In positions that I've held in the past it's been the appropriate action to wear a suit due to heavily corporate environments, and I see it as 110% normal that someone puts on a nice suit for an interview. The action of wearing a suit (or tie for that matter) to an interview should never be seen as a "cultural fit" problem - I'm looking at you SV... Sorry that almost happened to you. That's some bullshit. --- Overall a nice well-fitting button down + a pair of well-fitting dress slacks is what I would recommend. Personally, I wear a slim fit brand new white button-down (ironed), nice dark blue chinos (ironed, not pleated), and not-scuffed brown wing-tips. Often I also wear a tie, but am considering not thanks to a derelict SF "big-wig" grilling me in an interview as to "why are you wearing a tie?" All I wanted to say is "does it matter?" (offender: you're reading this don't do that again.) Also get a solid hair cut, ensure you're shaved if male, and yeah - sit up and be confident while you're in the chair. Body language does matter, and your interviewer will subconsciously notice regardless if they're giving you a "pass" or not.
- nicoburns 6y ago
  > The action of wearing a suit (or tie for that matter) to an interview should never be seen as a "cultural fit" problem I would agree and would go as far to say that dress in general should never be a hiring criteria for a non-customer facing position. Unless there are hygiene issues or they are wearing something actively offensive.
  - folkhack 6y ago
    I'm slightly more conservative - I've had people show up in t-shirt and jeans and have turned them away because I feel like they're breaking the social contract of what an interview is. Like - totally clean/non-offensive t-shirt and jeans. In a lot of my engineering roles I have had to be internal/external facing and do things like budget presentations, work with partners, etc. Before that, I was a general web/app dev and we would get pulled along to client meetings all the time to collect spec, ensure that it was a good sales fit, etc. I'm not saying I had to be fully decked-out but being able to throw on a button down and tuck it in means that you "fit-in" to these situations. For me, if someone is showing up in a t-shirt and jeans it's a red flag that you can't be bothered to dress semi-professionally which has been an occasional (but hard) requirement of me since day-1 of my career. 100% this all is anecdotal, and specific to my own needs/experiences.
    - bcrosby95 6y ago
      I would expect it to depend upon the company. Dress code doesn't really factor for me, but I've worked for the same place for a while now and we've always been 95% remote. Half of us just wear whatever we slept in the night before. Most people don't get dressed until lunch time. Even in the office it doesn't get much fancier than a t-shirt and jeans. I guess our tech lead wears a button down shirt, but his jeans usually have giant holes in them, so I would call that a wash. Expecting an interview candidate to wear something nice would feel a bit hypocritical.
    - bbbobbb 6y ago
      I think this is fair to both sides. I dress casually for interviews not only because that is what I prefer to wear but also in hopes of getting rejected by anybody who would consider that a red flag.
Mauricebranagh 6y ago
:-) I went to an interview (London UK) for a big name agency suited and booted and was interviewed by some one in a scruffy t shirt that looked like his dog had been sick on it. I sort of twigged that I was over dressed when on the way to the interview some one stopped me in the street and asked me the way to the "Ivy"
izacus 6y ago
Believe it or not, checking if the candidate is able to dress professionally and appropriately for the occasion is one of the major things being tested on most white collar job interviews.
rnd33 6y ago
Dressing appropriately does not mean "dressing up". It means dressing slightly above what is generally accepted as the normal dress code for the role your interviewing for, and the culture of the company. This is what makes it so hard, if it was just about putting a suit on everyone could do it. If you're completely unsure, just call the hiring manager and ask. "What's the dress code at company X?", "How do people in role X normally dress at your company?". No one will be mad at you for making an effort and trying fit into the culture.
potta_coffee 6y ago
I was treated poorly and mocked at an interview for wearing a sports coat over my jeans and t-shirt. Just can't win sometimes. In the end, not the kind of place I wanted to work.

manfredo 6y ago

What sort of "quirks" are we talking about? > interrupting me/talking over me, talking down to me, comparing their last junior position to being Steve Jobs, being sing-songy, inappropriate jokes in any way/shape/form, getting in arguments with themselves... etc etc. Besides being "sing-songy", none of these things are quirks, they're ineffective communication or untruthfulness of their past positions. As far as dress and "sing-songy" go, I would agree with the above poster: software development tends to be much more inclusive of these sorts of characteristics. Jeans and a T-shirt is perfectly acceptable attire for an interview. Do your software devs wear suits 5 days a week? Why expect a candidate to do so, either? A candidate I interviewed going, "uh-oh sphaghetti-oh!" when they hit a segfault when running their interviewing solution was kind of ridiculous, but ultimately has no impact on their contributions as a developer. Factoring in these kinds of thins into the hiring decisions is ultimately about including people from a culture similar to your own. Different cultures have different definitions of "weirdness" so selecting based on the ability of the candidate to identify what is "weirdness" is ultimately a cultural litmus test. And expecting male candidates to be shaved, as per your other comment, is just blatant cultural discrimination - some demographics like Sikhs could even sue you for illegal discrimination over this. This cuts both ways, both the case where a candidate in a T-shirt and jeans gets rejected for not wearing a suit and when a suited up candidate gets rejected for being too formal. Both ultimately hurt the company by excluding effective workers.

rusk 6y ago

> Invariably these same "quirks" come up down the road in the employment with output problems, copping attitude with superiors, weirdness in internal/external meetings, and just general antisocial behavior. Yep, I’ve been that guy! Had huge problems for a while. Mercifully my team/department/business put up with me for the most part, but I did have to suffer for a while. Learnt some invaluable lessons though and I’m quite happy to be a fitter happier and more productive individual! (Yes Radiohead reference but really not as bad as it seems:)

mcguire 6y ago

Personally, I don't really care how anyone dresses. (Oh, up to a point. One of the jobs I had evolved to, "No tube tops, bicycle shorts, or French maid outfits". The last two involved one senior hardware support guy.) But the other things? Oh, yeah. I've worked with (or attempted to) people like that, and I won't do it again. The first time a technical difference of opinion turns into a suicide threat, I'll just clean out my desk on my way out.

tremon 6y ago

To me, quirks are "yellow flags" in the interview stage because it means that you're not able to put your own weirdness aside to fit socially when you arguably need to the most My response from the other side of the table: as an interviewee, I view these initial interviews an an exercise in expectation management. I don't consider myself as weird, so I act like I normally would, otherwise I'm setting myself up for failure later on. Also, I don't wear to an interview what I wouldn't be comfortable wearing on a normal working day. I dress casual on purpose (but representably casual, not weird casual -- but that's my personal opinion of course).