4 ms·

What's the name of that insurer?

gambiting 6y ago
Not OP, but when my dad had cancer in Poland, the national health fund covered his entire treatment over 8 years. Few operations, monthly dose of Glivec(google the cost of Glivec treatment in the US to see how insane that is), hospital stays, and like OP said - he would get reimbursed for travelling to the hospital and back. And this treatment was never tied to his employment, he never had to prove to anyone that he definitely has cancer still, we've never seen a single bill for any of it, I simply have no idea how much this treatment has cost over the years. Which is the point of it all I think - if you need treatment, you simply get it, a regular person never has to worry about billing, dealing with insurers or anything like that. The only interactions you need to have are the doctors telling you when to appear for the operation, and the pharmacy calling you to let you know your drugs are ready to pick up. That's about it. I know there are outliers in that system, but for my dad's entire 8-year long treatment I'd consider the way this all works as 10/10.
- lotsofpulp 6y ago
  The Gleevec was probably an order of magnitude cheaper or more for the Polish government than in the US: https://www.statista.com/statistics/312011/prices-of-gleevec-by-country/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/312011/prices-of-gleevec... And doctors in Poland are probably not earning a few hundred thousand USD per year, and similar for nurses wages and all the other people in the healthcare chain. Quick googling shows wages might be an order of magnitude cheaper also. I assume healthcare providers in Poland are also not subject to the legal liability they would be in the US. Yes, the US has some extra administrative costs due to the billing nonsense of non taxpayer funded healthcare and overhead of health insurance companies, but bottom line is healthcare costs more in the US because everyone earns more top to bottom in the US, and supply of healthcare and medicine is constrained.
  - amaccuish 6y ago
    American exceptionalism at its finest
  - gambiting 6y ago
    >>Yes, the US has some extra administrative costs due to the billing nonsense of non taxpayer funded healthcare and overhead of health insurance companies, but bottom line is healthcare costs more in the US because everyone earns more top to bottom in the US, and supply of healthcare and medicine is constrained. Right, but just like your healthcare professionals are paid an order of magnitude more than ours, you guys will be paying an order of magnitude more in taxes and healthcare costs. So I don't think it's an excuse for the level of care provided in the US - yes, it's more expensive, but you also pay more for it, so.....why is the experience worse? And I mean, Polish supply of doctors and medicine is massively constrained too, that's by no means a uniquely American problem to have. >>I assume healthcare providers in Poland are also not subject to the legal liability they would be in the US. I'm sure the deeper legal nouances of legal liabilities are of course not the same, but at least on the surface level it's similar - of course you can sue a hospital for malpractice if it occurs, and you will be awarded damages.
    - lotsofpulp 6y ago
      > Right, but just like your healthcare professionals are paid an order of magnitude more than ours, you guys will be paying an order of magnitude more in taxes and healthcare costs. So I don't think it's an excuse for the level of care provided in the US - yes, it's more expensive, but you also pay more for it, so.....why is the experience worse? I believe the nuance is in who is paying more in taxes and who is receiving the benefits. This is the distribution of taxes paid by quintile: https://itep.org/who-pays-taxes-in-america-in-2019/ https://itep.org/who-pays-taxes-in-america-in-2019/ The over-arching theme in the US is the lack of political will in voters to enact policies that benefit everyone. And I believe that manifests itself in the messed up systems that we get, which are half assed measures to “help” people, but not really help people. So you end up with a much worse experience in healthcare for half or more of the population, since the goal never was to actually provide them with healthcare, but to give the appearance of it while also minimizing the amount of wealth transfer that happens. > And I mean, Polish supply of doctors and medicine is massively constrained too, that's by no means a uniquely American problem to have. I presumed it is less supply constrained due to the lower price point. I know it’s quicker and easier to become a doctor in the UK than the US, but potential doctors in the US may also have better career alternatives. > I'm sure the deeper legal nouances of legal liabilities are of course not the same, but at least on the surface level it's similar - of course you can sue a hospital for malpractice if it occurs, and you will be awarded damages. I don’t know enough about this to make any solid claims, but I was just going off the worldwide reputation of the US being more litigious than anywhere else. Also, the healthcare providers’ higher incomes in the US also probably result in bigger liabilities since there is more to gain in a lawsuit.
  - oauea 6y ago
    > but bottom line is healthcare costs more in the US because everyone earns more top to bottom in the US So there's more taxes available to absorb this cost. It's a self solving problem, in countries that have their shit together.
    - lotsofpulp 6y ago
      Depends how much tax the government collects and what the government spends it on. Obviously, the problem can be solved in a nation as wealthy as the US, it just depends what they want to give up to obtain it.
  - pnutjam 6y ago
    Right on schedule, here comes someone to parrot all the debunked reasons the US can't do stuff everyone else in the world can do.
    - lotsofpulp 6y ago
      I offered an explanation for how one can get that kind of treatment in Poland and not in the US in its current state, not as a permanent dynamic. Obviously, if the US focused its resources on providing healthcare to its people in a similar manner that other nations have, they could achieve it.
cryptonym 6y ago
Axa, about 10 years ago. Forums are full of similar stories for almost any private insurer.

Not OP, but when my dad had cancer in Poland, the national health fund covered his entire treatment over 8 years. Few operations, monthly dose of Glivec(google the cost of Glivec treatment in the US to see how insane that is), hospital stays, and like OP said - he would get reimbursed for travelling to the hospital and back. And this treatment was never tied to his employment, he never had to prove to anyone that he definitely has cancer still, we've never seen a single bill for any of it, I simply have no idea how much this treatment has cost over the years. Which is the point of it all I think - if you need treatment, you simply get it, a regular person never has to worry about billing, dealing with insurers or anything like that. The only interactions you need to have are the doctors telling you when to appear for the operation, and the pharmacy calling you to let you know your drugs are ready to pick up. That's about it. I know there are outliers in that system, but for my dad's entire 8-year long treatment I'd consider the way this all works as 10/10.

lotsofpulp 6y ago
The Gleevec was probably an order of magnitude cheaper or more for the Polish government than in the US: https://www.statista.com/statistics/312011/prices-of-gleevec-by-country/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/312011/prices-of-gleevec... And doctors in Poland are probably not earning a few hundred thousand USD per year, and similar for nurses wages and all the other people in the healthcare chain. Quick googling shows wages might be an order of magnitude cheaper also. I assume healthcare providers in Poland are also not subject to the legal liability they would be in the US. Yes, the US has some extra administrative costs due to the billing nonsense of non taxpayer funded healthcare and overhead of health insurance companies, but bottom line is healthcare costs more in the US because everyone earns more top to bottom in the US, and supply of healthcare and medicine is constrained.
- amaccuish 6y ago
  American exceptionalism at its finest
- gambiting 6y ago
  >>Yes, the US has some extra administrative costs due to the billing nonsense of non taxpayer funded healthcare and overhead of health insurance companies, but bottom line is healthcare costs more in the US because everyone earns more top to bottom in the US, and supply of healthcare and medicine is constrained. Right, but just like your healthcare professionals are paid an order of magnitude more than ours, you guys will be paying an order of magnitude more in taxes and healthcare costs. So I don't think it's an excuse for the level of care provided in the US - yes, it's more expensive, but you also pay more for it, so.....why is the experience worse? And I mean, Polish supply of doctors and medicine is massively constrained too, that's by no means a uniquely American problem to have. >>I assume healthcare providers in Poland are also not subject to the legal liability they would be in the US. I'm sure the deeper legal nouances of legal liabilities are of course not the same, but at least on the surface level it's similar - of course you can sue a hospital for malpractice if it occurs, and you will be awarded damages.
  - lotsofpulp 6y ago
    > Right, but just like your healthcare professionals are paid an order of magnitude more than ours, you guys will be paying an order of magnitude more in taxes and healthcare costs. So I don't think it's an excuse for the level of care provided in the US - yes, it's more expensive, but you also pay more for it, so.....why is the experience worse? I believe the nuance is in who is paying more in taxes and who is receiving the benefits. This is the distribution of taxes paid by quintile: https://itep.org/who-pays-taxes-in-america-in-2019/ https://itep.org/who-pays-taxes-in-america-in-2019/ The over-arching theme in the US is the lack of political will in voters to enact policies that benefit everyone. And I believe that manifests itself in the messed up systems that we get, which are half assed measures to “help” people, but not really help people. So you end up with a much worse experience in healthcare for half or more of the population, since the goal never was to actually provide them with healthcare, but to give the appearance of it while also minimizing the amount of wealth transfer that happens. > And I mean, Polish supply of doctors and medicine is massively constrained too, that's by no means a uniquely American problem to have. I presumed it is less supply constrained due to the lower price point. I know it’s quicker and easier to become a doctor in the UK than the US, but potential doctors in the US may also have better career alternatives. > I'm sure the deeper legal nouances of legal liabilities are of course not the same, but at least on the surface level it's similar - of course you can sue a hospital for malpractice if it occurs, and you will be awarded damages. I don’t know enough about this to make any solid claims, but I was just going off the worldwide reputation of the US being more litigious than anywhere else. Also, the healthcare providers’ higher incomes in the US also probably result in bigger liabilities since there is more to gain in a lawsuit.
- oauea 6y ago
  > but bottom line is healthcare costs more in the US because everyone earns more top to bottom in the US So there's more taxes available to absorb this cost. It's a self solving problem, in countries that have their shit together.
  - lotsofpulp 6y ago
    Depends how much tax the government collects and what the government spends it on. Obviously, the problem can be solved in a nation as wealthy as the US, it just depends what they want to give up to obtain it.
- pnutjam 6y ago
  Right on schedule, here comes someone to parrot all the debunked reasons the US can't do stuff everyone else in the world can do.
  - lotsofpulp 6y ago
    I offered an explanation for how one can get that kind of treatment in Poland and not in the US in its current state, not as a permanent dynamic. Obviously, if the US focused its resources on providing healthcare to its people in a similar manner that other nations have, they could achieve it.

cryptonym 6y ago

Axa, about 10 years ago. Forums are full of similar stories for almost any private insurer.