4 ms·

Treatment and part of my income was insured by public actors (not US). No issue, everything is automatic, didn't had to pay a single thing and it would even be

Treatment and part of my income was insured by public actors (not US). No issue, everything is automatic, didn't had to pay a single thing and it would even be possible to get unlimited free taxi rides from home to hospital, free public transport, wig, sport... even a tax cut. I'm really thankful for this. Other part of my income was insured by a private company. They lost my files, claimed I didn't fill the forms and after months of fight and involving my employer, they magically found papers I previously sent and paid. Private companies seek profit and would basically do anything to keep your money. You cannot build a good (fair) insurance company with this logic.

metters 6y ago
What's the name of that insurer?
- gambiting 6y ago
  Not OP, but when my dad had cancer in Poland, the national health fund covered his entire treatment over 8 years. Few operations, monthly dose of Glivec(google the cost of Glivec treatment in the US to see how insane that is), hospital stays, and like OP said - he would get reimbursed for travelling to the hospital and back. And this treatment was never tied to his employment, he never had to prove to anyone that he definitely has cancer still, we've never seen a single bill for any of it, I simply have no idea how much this treatment has cost over the years. Which is the point of it all I think - if you need treatment, you simply get it, a regular person never has to worry about billing, dealing with insurers or anything like that. The only interactions you need to have are the doctors telling you when to appear for the operation, and the pharmacy calling you to let you know your drugs are ready to pick up. That's about it. I know there are outliers in that system, but for my dad's entire 8-year long treatment I'd consider the way this all works as 10/10.
  - lotsofpulp 6y ago
    The Gleevec was probably an order of magnitude cheaper or more for the Polish government than in the US: https://www.statista.com/statistics/312011/prices-of-gleevec-by-country/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/312011/prices-of-gleevec... And doctors in Poland are probably not earning a few hundred thousand USD per year, and similar for nurses wages and all the other people in the healthcare chain. Quick googling shows wages might be an order of magnitude cheaper also. I assume healthcare providers in Poland are also not subject to the legal liability they would be in the US. Yes, the US has some extra administrative costs due to the billing nonsense of non taxpayer funded healthcare and overhead of health insurance companies, but bottom line is healthcare costs more in the US because everyone earns more top to bottom in the US, and supply of healthcare and medicine is constrained.
    - amaccuish 6y ago
      American exceptionalism at its finest
    - gambiting 6y ago
      >>Yes, the US has some extra administrative costs due to the billing nonsense of non taxpayer funded healthcare and overhead of health insurance companies, but bottom line is healthcare costs more in the US because everyone earns more top to bottom in the US, and supply of healthcare and medicine is constrained. Right, but just like your healthcare professionals are paid an order of magnitude more than ours, you guys will be paying an order of magnitude more in taxes and healthcare costs. So I don't think it's an excuse for the level of care provided in the US - yes, it's more expensive, but you also pay more for it, so.....why is the experience worse? And I mean, Polish supply of doctors and medicine is massively constrained too, that's by no means a uniquely American problem to have. >>I assume healthcare providers in Poland are also not subject to the legal liability they would be in the US. I'm sure the deeper legal nouances of legal liabilities are of course not the same, but at least on the surface level it's similar - of course you can sue a hospital for malpractice if it occurs, and you will be awarded damages.
      - lotsofpulp 6y ago
        > Right, but just like your healthcare professionals are paid an order of magnitude more than ours, you guys will be paying an order of magnitude more in taxes and healthcare costs. So I don't think it's an excuse for the level of care provided in the US - yes, it's more expensive, but you also pay more for it, so.....why is the experience worse? I believe the nuance is in who is paying more in taxes and who is receiving the benefits. This is the distribution of taxes paid by quintile: https://itep.org/who-pays-taxes-in-america-in-2019/ https://itep.org/who-pays-taxes-in-america-in-2019/ The over-arching theme in the US is the lack of political will in voters to enact policies that benefit everyone. And I believe that manifests itself in the messed up systems that we get, which are half assed measures to “help” people, but not really help people. So you end up with a much worse experience in healthcare for half or more of the population, since the goal never was to actually provide them with healthcare, but to give the appearance of it while also minimizing the amount of wealth transfer that happens. > And I mean, Polish supply of doctors and medicine is massively constrained too, that's by no means a uniquely American problem to have. I presumed it is less supply constrained due to the lower price point. I know it’s quicker and easier to become a doctor in the UK than the US, but potential doctors in the US may also have better career alternatives. > I'm sure the deeper legal nouances of legal liabilities are of course not the same, but at least on the surface level it's similar - of course you can sue a hospital for malpractice if it occurs, and you will be awarded damages. I don’t know enough about this to make any solid claims, but I was just going off the worldwide reputation of the US being more litigious than anywhere else. Also, the healthcare providers’ higher incomes in the US also probably result in bigger liabilities since there is more to gain in a lawsuit.
- cryptonym 6y ago
  Axa, about 10 years ago. Forums are full of similar stories for almost any private insurer.
spaetzleesser 6y ago
“Other part of my income was insured by a private company. They lost my files, claimed I didn't fill the forms and after months of fight and involving my employer, they magically found papers I previously sent and paid.” That’s the same insane situation like during the mortgage crisis where banks constantly lost papers or made wrong claims and got away with that. It’s hard to understand that insurers and hospitals constantly get away with forgetting or misrepresenting things. I can’t imagine any other business being allowed to do that.

metters 6y ago

What's the name of that insurer?

gambiting 6y ago
Not OP, but when my dad had cancer in Poland, the national health fund covered his entire treatment over 8 years. Few operations, monthly dose of Glivec(google the cost of Glivec treatment in the US to see how insane that is), hospital stays, and like OP said - he would get reimbursed for travelling to the hospital and back. And this treatment was never tied to his employment, he never had to prove to anyone that he definitely has cancer still, we've never seen a single bill for any of it, I simply have no idea how much this treatment has cost over the years. Which is the point of it all I think - if you need treatment, you simply get it, a regular person never has to worry about billing, dealing with insurers or anything like that. The only interactions you need to have are the doctors telling you when to appear for the operation, and the pharmacy calling you to let you know your drugs are ready to pick up. That's about it. I know there are outliers in that system, but for my dad's entire 8-year long treatment I'd consider the way this all works as 10/10.
- lotsofpulp 6y ago
  The Gleevec was probably an order of magnitude cheaper or more for the Polish government than in the US: https://www.statista.com/statistics/312011/prices-of-gleevec-by-country/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/312011/prices-of-gleevec... And doctors in Poland are probably not earning a few hundred thousand USD per year, and similar for nurses wages and all the other people in the healthcare chain. Quick googling shows wages might be an order of magnitude cheaper also. I assume healthcare providers in Poland are also not subject to the legal liability they would be in the US. Yes, the US has some extra administrative costs due to the billing nonsense of non taxpayer funded healthcare and overhead of health insurance companies, but bottom line is healthcare costs more in the US because everyone earns more top to bottom in the US, and supply of healthcare and medicine is constrained.
  - amaccuish 6y ago
    American exceptionalism at its finest
  - gambiting 6y ago
    >>Yes, the US has some extra administrative costs due to the billing nonsense of non taxpayer funded healthcare and overhead of health insurance companies, but bottom line is healthcare costs more in the US because everyone earns more top to bottom in the US, and supply of healthcare and medicine is constrained. Right, but just like your healthcare professionals are paid an order of magnitude more than ours, you guys will be paying an order of magnitude more in taxes and healthcare costs. So I don't think it's an excuse for the level of care provided in the US - yes, it's more expensive, but you also pay more for it, so.....why is the experience worse? And I mean, Polish supply of doctors and medicine is massively constrained too, that's by no means a uniquely American problem to have. >>I assume healthcare providers in Poland are also not subject to the legal liability they would be in the US. I'm sure the deeper legal nouances of legal liabilities are of course not the same, but at least on the surface level it's similar - of course you can sue a hospital for malpractice if it occurs, and you will be awarded damages.
    - lotsofpulp 6y ago
      > Right, but just like your healthcare professionals are paid an order of magnitude more than ours, you guys will be paying an order of magnitude more in taxes and healthcare costs. So I don't think it's an excuse for the level of care provided in the US - yes, it's more expensive, but you also pay more for it, so.....why is the experience worse? I believe the nuance is in who is paying more in taxes and who is receiving the benefits. This is the distribution of taxes paid by quintile: https://itep.org/who-pays-taxes-in-america-in-2019/ https://itep.org/who-pays-taxes-in-america-in-2019/ The over-arching theme in the US is the lack of political will in voters to enact policies that benefit everyone. And I believe that manifests itself in the messed up systems that we get, which are half assed measures to “help” people, but not really help people. So you end up with a much worse experience in healthcare for half or more of the population, since the goal never was to actually provide them with healthcare, but to give the appearance of it while also minimizing the amount of wealth transfer that happens. > And I mean, Polish supply of doctors and medicine is massively constrained too, that's by no means a uniquely American problem to have. I presumed it is less supply constrained due to the lower price point. I know it’s quicker and easier to become a doctor in the UK than the US, but potential doctors in the US may also have better career alternatives. > I'm sure the deeper legal nouances of legal liabilities are of course not the same, but at least on the surface level it's similar - of course you can sue a hospital for malpractice if it occurs, and you will be awarded damages. I don’t know enough about this to make any solid claims, but I was just going off the worldwide reputation of the US being more litigious than anywhere else. Also, the healthcare providers’ higher incomes in the US also probably result in bigger liabilities since there is more to gain in a lawsuit.
cryptonym 6y ago
Axa, about 10 years ago. Forums are full of similar stories for almost any private insurer.

spaetzleesser 6y ago

“Other part of my income was insured by a private company. They lost my files, claimed I didn't fill the forms and after months of fight and involving my employer, they magically found papers I previously sent and paid.” That’s the same insane situation like during the mortgage crisis where banks constantly lost papers or made wrong claims and got away with that. It’s hard to understand that insurers and hospitals constantly get away with forgetting or misrepresenting things. I can’t imagine any other business being allowed to do that.