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> even Obamacare was labeled as controversial Obama lied about it: https://www.factcheck.org/2017/01/obamas-whoppers/ https://www.factcheck.org/2017/01/obamas-

by Chris2048 6y ago

> even Obamacare was labeled as controversial Obama lied about it: https://www.factcheck.org/2017/01/obamas-whoppers/ https://www.factcheck.org/2017/01/obamas-whoppers/ Also, some like to point at European countries (e.g. France) as proof that universal healthcare works, ignoring that a) some of those countries are very different from the US, and b) even the "successful" ones aren't proven viable for the future, i.e. rising costs. If you want to improve things, how? The money has to come from somewhere, and so far may of the plans punish those that already have health plans. Some administration needs the balls to truly reform healthcare laws - but that's one hell of a fight, especially while concurrently fighting all the other issues/culture wars at the moment.

JimTheMan 6y ago
They've proven cheaper and more effective in other countries for decades... Healthcare costs are rising everywhere as well, it alone isn't enough to somehow wipe away the fact the US pays about double for worse care.
- Chris2048 6y ago
  Decades isn't long enough. If Healthcare costs are rising everywhere, then no-one has a stable solution. And I'm talking about universal healthcare, not American healthcare; the difference being that there are more than one factors that goes into the end-result of American healthcare, so if you start talking about universal specifically and then switch to American outcomes, you are implying the one follows from the other, and the burden is on you that that outcome is purely due to that one factor (and not, say, a culture of litigation; or cultures of corporate lobbying/corruption etc). I'd also wonder which part of my post drew downvotes. I hope it's not that I dared suggest that Obama lied. But that was one reason it was controversial, and that future efforts at something similar are now damaged; who'd trust a similar proposition when even wunderkind Obama couldn't be straight about the deal?

JimTheMan 6y ago

They've proven cheaper and more effective in other countries for decades... Healthcare costs are rising everywhere as well, it alone isn't enough to somehow wipe away the fact the US pays about double for worse care.

Chris2048 6y ago
Decades isn't long enough. If Healthcare costs are rising everywhere, then no-one has a stable solution. And I'm talking about universal healthcare, not American healthcare; the difference being that there are more than one factors that goes into the end-result of American healthcare, so if you start talking about universal specifically and then switch to American outcomes, you are implying the one follows from the other, and the burden is on you that that outcome is purely due to that one factor (and not, say, a culture of litigation; or cultures of corporate lobbying/corruption etc). I'd also wonder which part of my post drew downvotes. I hope it's not that I dared suggest that Obama lied. But that was one reason it was controversial, and that future efforts at something similar are now damaged; who'd trust a similar proposition when even wunderkind Obama couldn't be straight about the deal?