4 ms·

Speak for yourself. I hate public transportation and sharing commodities. I’d much rather have my own car and large private spaces.

wesleywt 6y ago
I believe this is hell. Hours of your life wasted in traffic because the rest of the population believes the same. I ran out of battery power on camera in Barcelona. I got off the tour bus and was at my hotel room within 10 minutes to plug it in. Then back on the tour of the city really quickly due to the awesome transport systems. My city, Cape Town, where public transport is really bad it would have taken me an hour or more depending on the traffic. If you want large private spaces and drive your own car, move to a rural town.
Uberphallus 6y ago
That sounds violently American. Anyway, according to that statement either you hate dense cities or you just love wasting your time in them. Maybe try a top public transit network, like Vienna (overall), Moscow or Madrid (subway), Tokyo (train) or even Paris (when there's no strike) to see things done right, because in the US cities with barely functional public transit can be counted with a single hand.
- nec4b 6y ago
  >>That sounds violently American. It really doesn't. There are people all over the world who feel the same as the person you're replying to. The feeling has nothing to do whether the city has a "top public transit network" as you put it or a third world always broke transit network.
  - Uberphallus 6y ago
    Sure, everyone can have any opinion anywhere. Still it's mostly an opinion shaped by the environment and mostly prevalent in the US, and to lesser extent, other sparsely populated countries with significant sprawl. The fact that the sprawl makes it ineffective and expensive to lay an effective public transit is what makes it seem undesirable. The fact that it's ineffective makes it relegated to what poor people use, deepening the issue. And this goes as just personal experience, but my US friends in the EU insist on driving through city traffic and spending 3-4 as much time in commuting, and it takes a while until they give up. Some of them aren't even used to do groceries by foot, for a large chunk of the US population that involves driving to a Walmart.
    - nec4b 6y ago
      >> Sure, everyone can have any opinion anywhere. Still it's mostly an opinion shaped by the environment and mostly prevalent in the US, and to lesser extent, other sparsely populated countries with significant sprawl. Do you also think that introversion and extraversion are opinions shaped by the environment? Does really bother you so much if so many people intrinsically prefer a different lifestyle than what you believe it to be the best, that you are basically willing to call them brainwashed by the environment? >>Some of them aren't even used to do groceries by foot, for a large chunk of the US population that involves driving to a Walmart. It's the same everywhere across Europe outside of strict city centers, just replace Walmart with a local shopping center (Spar, Aldi, Leclerc,...). If you'll ever visit one, you're guaranteed to find them packed with people.
      - Uberphallus 6y ago
        > Do you also think that introversion and extraversion are opinions shaped by the environment? I don't know how intro/extroversion might be shaped or not by the environment, never gave that a thought. > Does really bother you so much if so many people intrinsically prefer a different lifestyle than what you believe it to be the best, that you are basically willing to call them brainwashed by the environment? I don't get bothered by the comment, but rather by the implications. I just describe it: car over anything else, as an opinion, is largely a side effect of cheap-gas + city-sprawl approach to development, which is the archetype of urban unsustainability [0]. It's no surprise that the US leads (along with Australia, guilty of the same sin) per capita fossil fuel consumption, close to an order of magnitude higher than the European average, and doubling Germany, the industrial powerhouse of the continent. People in the US are car centric not unlike in North Korea they're Juche-centric: it's often (or always) the only option. > It's the same everywhere across Europe outside of strict city centers, just replace Walmart with a local shopping center (Spar, Aldi, Leclerc,...). If you'll ever visit one, you're guaranteed to find them packed with people. Maybe we've lived in different parts of Europe? There's like 2-4 levels of proximity in all major conglomerates (e.g. Carrefour > Carrefour Market > Carrefour Express, Monoprix > Monop', etc). Even though the smaller the more expensive, they're invariably cheaper than even just starting the car, and a no-brainer if you value your time at minimum wage. Spar is largely just proximity shopping so I doubt you'll see it crowded, Aldi is hard discount so they tend to just build big where it's cheap (causing the problems you describe), and Leclerc has no proximity to my knowledge but has more central and bigger locations than Aldi. Check locations of AhorraMás/DIA in Spain, Carrefour in France, or Фора and Сильпо in Ukraine (or at least Kyiv), to name a few I'm familiar with. Every neighborhood has them, even residential ones, and you only need to go to a mall or a big hypermarket in exceptional cases. The closest thing I can compare Walmart to, in Europe, is Auchan, with roughly the same ratio of supercenters/hypermarkets to neighborhood stores (3:1). Interestingly, Auchan is losing money because as Europe becomes denser, people shop less and less at hypermarkets. [0] https://www.nature.com/scitable/knowledge/library/the-characteristics-causes-and-consequences-of-sprawling-103014747/ https://www.nature.com/scitable/knowledge/library/the-charac...
- EdwinLarkin 6y ago
  I am a european and agree with OP. Vienna is nice but smelly and one does not feel particularly safe there. CJK subways are super nice because people dont smell. Still they are too crowded and usually in super huge cities where commuting is pain anyway.
  - Uberphallus 6y ago
    Vienna is notoriously safe, as any city there are sketchy neighborhoods, but still. Were you there for long? Or just used it at night?
    - EdwinLarkin 6y ago
      I live there :)
- trianglem 6y ago
  My preferences have nothing to do with the quality of public transit.
pjc50 6y ago
I'd like those .. but without being stuck in traffic for hours. Private transportation + reduction in density = increased time to get into the city.

wesleywt 6y ago

I believe this is hell. Hours of your life wasted in traffic because the rest of the population believes the same. I ran out of battery power on camera in Barcelona. I got off the tour bus and was at my hotel room within 10 minutes to plug it in. Then back on the tour of the city really quickly due to the awesome transport systems. My city, Cape Town, where public transport is really bad it would have taken me an hour or more depending on the traffic. If you want large private spaces and drive your own car, move to a rural town.

Uberphallus 6y ago

That sounds violently American. Anyway, according to that statement either you hate dense cities or you just love wasting your time in them. Maybe try a top public transit network, like Vienna (overall), Moscow or Madrid (subway), Tokyo (train) or even Paris (when there's no strike) to see things done right, because in the US cities with barely functional public transit can be counted with a single hand.

nec4b 6y ago
>>That sounds violently American. It really doesn't. There are people all over the world who feel the same as the person you're replying to. The feeling has nothing to do whether the city has a "top public transit network" as you put it or a third world always broke transit network.
- Uberphallus 6y ago
  Sure, everyone can have any opinion anywhere. Still it's mostly an opinion shaped by the environment and mostly prevalent in the US, and to lesser extent, other sparsely populated countries with significant sprawl. The fact that the sprawl makes it ineffective and expensive to lay an effective public transit is what makes it seem undesirable. The fact that it's ineffective makes it relegated to what poor people use, deepening the issue. And this goes as just personal experience, but my US friends in the EU insist on driving through city traffic and spending 3-4 as much time in commuting, and it takes a while until they give up. Some of them aren't even used to do groceries by foot, for a large chunk of the US population that involves driving to a Walmart.
  - nec4b 6y ago
    >> Sure, everyone can have any opinion anywhere. Still it's mostly an opinion shaped by the environment and mostly prevalent in the US, and to lesser extent, other sparsely populated countries with significant sprawl. Do you also think that introversion and extraversion are opinions shaped by the environment? Does really bother you so much if so many people intrinsically prefer a different lifestyle than what you believe it to be the best, that you are basically willing to call them brainwashed by the environment? >>Some of them aren't even used to do groceries by foot, for a large chunk of the US population that involves driving to a Walmart. It's the same everywhere across Europe outside of strict city centers, just replace Walmart with a local shopping center (Spar, Aldi, Leclerc,...). If you'll ever visit one, you're guaranteed to find them packed with people.
    - Uberphallus 6y ago
      > Do you also think that introversion and extraversion are opinions shaped by the environment? I don't know how intro/extroversion might be shaped or not by the environment, never gave that a thought. > Does really bother you so much if so many people intrinsically prefer a different lifestyle than what you believe it to be the best, that you are basically willing to call them brainwashed by the environment? I don't get bothered by the comment, but rather by the implications. I just describe it: car over anything else, as an opinion, is largely a side effect of cheap-gas + city-sprawl approach to development, which is the archetype of urban unsustainability [0]. It's no surprise that the US leads (along with Australia, guilty of the same sin) per capita fossil fuel consumption, close to an order of magnitude higher than the European average, and doubling Germany, the industrial powerhouse of the continent. People in the US are car centric not unlike in North Korea they're Juche-centric: it's often (or always) the only option. > It's the same everywhere across Europe outside of strict city centers, just replace Walmart with a local shopping center (Spar, Aldi, Leclerc,...). If you'll ever visit one, you're guaranteed to find them packed with people. Maybe we've lived in different parts of Europe? There's like 2-4 levels of proximity in all major conglomerates (e.g. Carrefour > Carrefour Market > Carrefour Express, Monoprix > Monop', etc). Even though the smaller the more expensive, they're invariably cheaper than even just starting the car, and a no-brainer if you value your time at minimum wage. Spar is largely just proximity shopping so I doubt you'll see it crowded, Aldi is hard discount so they tend to just build big where it's cheap (causing the problems you describe), and Leclerc has no proximity to my knowledge but has more central and bigger locations than Aldi. Check locations of AhorraMás/DIA in Spain, Carrefour in France, or Фора and Сильпо in Ukraine (or at least Kyiv), to name a few I'm familiar with. Every neighborhood has them, even residential ones, and you only need to go to a mall or a big hypermarket in exceptional cases. The closest thing I can compare Walmart to, in Europe, is Auchan, with roughly the same ratio of supercenters/hypermarkets to neighborhood stores (3:1). Interestingly, Auchan is losing money because as Europe becomes denser, people shop less and less at hypermarkets. [0] https://www.nature.com/scitable/knowledge/library/the-characteristics-causes-and-consequences-of-sprawling-103014747/ https://www.nature.com/scitable/knowledge/library/the-charac...
EdwinLarkin 6y ago
I am a european and agree with OP. Vienna is nice but smelly and one does not feel particularly safe there. CJK subways are super nice because people dont smell. Still they are too crowded and usually in super huge cities where commuting is pain anyway.
- Uberphallus 6y ago
  Vienna is notoriously safe, as any city there are sketchy neighborhoods, but still. Were you there for long? Or just used it at night?
  - EdwinLarkin 6y ago
    I live there :)
trianglem 6y ago
My preferences have nothing to do with the quality of public transit.

pjc50 6y ago

I'd like those .. but without being stuck in traffic for hours. Private transportation + reduction in density = increased time to get into the city.