5 ms·

Even in cities with mass transit in the US, there's a substantial wealthy population that chooses car (or helicopter!) commutes (they might not be commuting dai

Even in cities with mass transit in the US, there's a substantial wealthy population that chooses car (or helicopter!) commutes (they might not be commuting daily, though, or driving themselves when they do) over transit ones, so with people for the means for either, it's definitely not a 100% preference for mass transit.

munk-a 6y ago
It's weird though since in the US people actively fight against mass transit. Even if you're not personally riding on mass transit it's a public service that helps the local economy thrive - people just get silly minded and all the NIMBY arguments start coming out.
- perryizgr8 6y ago
  > It's weird though since in the US people actively fight against mass transit. It's kind of understandable that people protest against having their money stolen and used to build things they don't like. Why do you think it's weird?
  - epistasis 6y ago
    No, it's completely illogical from every aspect. Even if the person is going to drive no matter what, and only wants to improve their own experience for least cost, the dollar for transit improves their road experience more than a dollar for more road infrastructure. And even those roads are mostly funded by general funds, not through gas taxes. Gas taxes and user fares fund roughly equivalent amounts of roads and public transit, respectively. And 80% of federal transportation money goes to roads. The only explanation that's possible is extremely short-sighted and self-defeating selfishness: seeing something that's not for them and instinctively opposing it, without thinking of the bigger picture. It's just childish.
  - Uberphallus 6y ago
    It's not weird, it's just extremely short sighted. It's exactly like socialized healthcare: somehow the US system manages to be more expensive than anywhere else in the world, ranks among developing nations, yet people will fight fang and teeth against "communism".
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
- whatshisface 6y ago
  A proven track record of local government incompetence and private-public fleecing makes large civil projects much less popular than they would be in a perfect world.
  - astrange 6y ago
    Mostly it's because they think black people will ride the subway to their house and rob them. This is why Atlanta suburbs vote down every MARTA extension and fare change.
    - whatshisface 6y ago
      I guess we have several competing hypotheses, how might we go about finding out the true answer?
      - munk-a 6y ago
        I'd take a look at how often crime statistics come up during discussions of expanding public transit options - up here in BC and when I lived in Boston that was the primary argument against expansion... Public transit stations "cause" a raise in crime rate and lower (detached) home values.
tolbish 6y ago
Cities with mass transit are still lacking compared to cities across the world. The NYC subway is a very different (and inferior IMO) experience than the London subway.
- colinmhayes 6y ago
  London subway doesn't operate at night which is enough to say new york's is better imo.
  - andrew_ 6y ago
    Is that a recent change? I swear my wife and I used it after midnight back in 2016.
    - Leherenn 6y ago
      Some lines are open on Fridays and Saturdays nights since 2016.
  - jgwil2 6y ago
    They run night buses along the same routes though.
cma 6y ago
I can't imagine more than 1 in 20,000 helicopter commutes every day in the US, but I couldn't find a number.
- omosubi 6y ago
  I be surprised if 1 in 20k _rode_ in a helicopter every day, let alone commuted
nine_k 6y ago
On Manhattan, a taxi is very often slower than subway (especially compared to the express trains), but it gives you more privacy, and more room to put your baggage. It's a balancing act. A helicopter is theoretically great, but in practice helipads on Manhattan were removed in 1980s because of several spectacular crashes, so it's only practical between e.g. the financial district and the airports, which is probably where all the customers are anyway.
- runarberg 6y ago
  Helicopter commuting is so wasteful and awful it ought to be illegal. Why should I have to suffer the noise pollution of some rich asshole riding a marginally quicker commute? In fact while they are allowing helicopter commute, they should pay everyone in on the commute path $100 in compensation, and then another $1000 to the state for the air pollution and the carbon emission.
  - nine_k 6y ago
    Maybe this is why helicopter "commute" in NYC mostly happens above water, where a car or a train is not such a good option. The cheapest I know is $400 from Manhattan to JFK; I could probably use it in a pinch (say, a transatlantic flight with a connection), if split between four passengers. Police helicopters and fire trucks are much more bothersome sources of noise.
    - runarberg 6y ago
      I’m fine with the noise pollution if it means potentially saving someones live. However some rich asshole wanting do depart 20 min later then otherwise, to the airport is unacceptable.
refurb 6y ago
Yup. I spent some time in Singapore which has one of the most extensive mass transit systems in the world. Yet the demand for cars is still very high, even with a massive ($70k USD) licensing fee and 100% import duty (Corolla costs $70k USD).

munk-a 6y ago

It's weird though since in the US people actively fight against mass transit. Even if you're not personally riding on mass transit it's a public service that helps the local economy thrive - people just get silly minded and all the NIMBY arguments start coming out.

perryizgr8 6y ago
> It's weird though since in the US people actively fight against mass transit. It's kind of understandable that people protest against having their money stolen and used to build things they don't like. Why do you think it's weird?
- epistasis 6y ago
  No, it's completely illogical from every aspect. Even if the person is going to drive no matter what, and only wants to improve their own experience for least cost, the dollar for transit improves their road experience more than a dollar for more road infrastructure. And even those roads are mostly funded by general funds, not through gas taxes. Gas taxes and user fares fund roughly equivalent amounts of roads and public transit, respectively. And 80% of federal transportation money goes to roads. The only explanation that's possible is extremely short-sighted and self-defeating selfishness: seeing something that's not for them and instinctively opposing it, without thinking of the bigger picture. It's just childish.
- Uberphallus 6y ago
  It's not weird, it's just extremely short sighted. It's exactly like socialized healthcare: somehow the US system manages to be more expensive than anywhere else in the world, ranks among developing nations, yet people will fight fang and teeth against "communism".
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
whatshisface 6y ago
A proven track record of local government incompetence and private-public fleecing makes large civil projects much less popular than they would be in a perfect world.
- astrange 6y ago
  Mostly it's because they think black people will ride the subway to their house and rob them. This is why Atlanta suburbs vote down every MARTA extension and fare change.
  - whatshisface 6y ago
    I guess we have several competing hypotheses, how might we go about finding out the true answer?
    - munk-a 6y ago
      I'd take a look at how often crime statistics come up during discussions of expanding public transit options - up here in BC and when I lived in Boston that was the primary argument against expansion... Public transit stations "cause" a raise in crime rate and lower (detached) home values.

tolbish 6y ago

Cities with mass transit are still lacking compared to cities across the world. The NYC subway is a very different (and inferior IMO) experience than the London subway.

colinmhayes 6y ago
London subway doesn't operate at night which is enough to say new york's is better imo.
- andrew_ 6y ago
  Is that a recent change? I swear my wife and I used it after midnight back in 2016.
  - Leherenn 6y ago
    Some lines are open on Fridays and Saturdays nights since 2016.
- jgwil2 6y ago
  They run night buses along the same routes though.

cma 6y ago

I can't imagine more than 1 in 20,000 helicopter commutes every day in the US, but I couldn't find a number.

omosubi 6y ago
I be surprised if 1 in 20k _rode_ in a helicopter every day, let alone commuted

nine_k 6y ago

On Manhattan, a taxi is very often slower than subway (especially compared to the express trains), but it gives you more privacy, and more room to put your baggage. It's a balancing act. A helicopter is theoretically great, but in practice helipads on Manhattan were removed in 1980s because of several spectacular crashes, so it's only practical between e.g. the financial district and the airports, which is probably where all the customers are anyway.

runarberg 6y ago
Helicopter commuting is so wasteful and awful it ought to be illegal. Why should I have to suffer the noise pollution of some rich asshole riding a marginally quicker commute? In fact while they are allowing helicopter commute, they should pay everyone in on the commute path $100 in compensation, and then another $1000 to the state for the air pollution and the carbon emission.
- nine_k 6y ago
  Maybe this is why helicopter "commute" in NYC mostly happens above water, where a car or a train is not such a good option. The cheapest I know is $400 from Manhattan to JFK; I could probably use it in a pinch (say, a transatlantic flight with a connection), if split between four passengers. Police helicopters and fire trucks are much more bothersome sources of noise.
  - runarberg 6y ago
    I’m fine with the noise pollution if it means potentially saving someones live. However some rich asshole wanting do depart 20 min later then otherwise, to the airport is unacceptable.

refurb 6y ago

Yup. I spent some time in Singapore which has one of the most extensive mass transit systems in the world. Yet the demand for cars is still very high, even with a massive ($70k USD) licensing fee and 100% import duty (Corolla costs $70k USD).