4 ms·

Amazon's air safety record is less than stellar. Prime Air had a fatal 767 incident in early 2019. https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Pages/A

by lawguy 6y ago

Amazon's air safety record is less than stellar. Prime Air had a fatal 767 incident in early 2019. https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Pages/AAR2002.aspx https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Pages/AA... In the accident flight, the first officer (FO) inadvertently activated the "go around" mode during landing, then, in surprise, pushed the airplane into the ground. > According to one check airman at [FO's previous airline], the FO could explain things well in the briefing room and performed some expected tasks well in the simulator. However, when presented with something unexpected in the simulator, the FO would get extremely flustered and could not respond appropriately to the situation. She said that when the FO did not know what to do, he became extremely anxious and would start pushing a lot of buttons without thinking about what he was pushing, just to be doing something.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
dpifke 6y ago
Thanks for the link to this. The full report (PDF) makes for interesting reading: https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/AAR2002.pdf https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/... Some additional damning quotes: Another check airman at Mesa said the FO’s stick and rudder skills were weak, and he also struggled with basic flight management system tasks. This check airman described the FO’s piloting performance as among the worst he had ever seen and noted that the FO tended to have an excuse for each of his poor performances, such as blaming his simulator partner, his instructor, or the hotel. A third check airman at Mesa said that the FO had weak situational awareness, did not realize what was going on with the airplane at times, and had difficulty staying ahead of the airplane. She said the FO was completely unaware that he lacked skills, unwilling to accept feedback, and unhappy with her about his failure to upgrade to captain. An instructor who taught cockpit procedures on the flight training devices at Air Wisconsin Airlines recalled that during one emergency procedures training scenario, the FO made abrupt control inputs that triggered the stick shaker and overspeed alerts. The instructor said that instead of staying engaged in the scenario and addressing the problem with his training partner, the FO just stopped what he was doing and turned around and looked at the instructor. The instructor found this reaction highly unusual. Turns out Amazon didn't know about any of these failures, because here's your government in action (inaction): Ten years ago, Section 203 of the Airline Safety and Federal Aviation Administration Extension Act of 2010 mandated that the FAA create an electronic pilot records database (PRD), which was intended to improve the timeliness and efficiency of the PRIA records retrieval process by providing hiring operators and DAs with direct access to pilots’ FAA, NDR, and former employer records in a single database. By 2016, the FAA had not yet implemented the PRD, and Congress imposed an April 30, 2017, deadline, which the FAA also missed. Although the FAA has begun phasing in the use of the PRD, the PRD is not yet fully functional; it contains only pilots’ FAA records and is available to hiring operators for use on a voluntary basis.
- dehrmann 6y ago
  Mesa, like the airline American and United use as a regional carrier?
- throwaway201103 6y ago
  Also, the FO was black, and ticked the quota goals at his employers.
granzymes 6y ago
Amazon doesn't operate the planes it leases (and now, owns), as noted by the first sentence of that accident report.
onion2k 6y ago
She said that when the FO did not know what to do, he became extremely anxious and would start pushing a lot of buttons without thinking about what he was pushing, just to be doing something. You'd think that the simulator would be able to detect inappropriate button pushes in a given situation, and produce a report stating that it had happened more than <some threshold> times during an exercise. That should flag the pilot for further evaluation and training...
- sidewndr46 6y ago
  That isn't how aircraft simulators work. They simulate the aircraft, not the exact expected behavior. For example, if an electrical system warning presents itself the pilot might first turn off all in flight entertainment. This won't necessarily solve the problem, but the plane can fly fine without in flight entertainment.
  - onion2k 6y ago
    They presumably record the behaviour of the person flying the simulator though during the simulated emergency (or any situation). What I'm suggesting is that a report is generated from recorded data to show that the pilot didn't do what was necessarily expected - turning off the in-flight entertainment is an example which might be judged an odd but innocuous action, but turning off the engines, or hammering 50 buttons in the space of a minute, or something, would indicate behaviour that is well outside of the expected parameters. That should be flagged. If the other flight crew in the simulator at the same time can tell that the pilot was behaving erratically then the simulator reporting software should be able to tell as well.

by lawguy 6y ago

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

dpifke 6y ago

Thanks for the link to this. The full report (PDF) makes for interesting reading: https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/AAR2002.pdf https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/... Some additional damning quotes: Another check airman at Mesa said the FO’s stick and rudder skills were weak, and he also struggled with basic flight management system tasks. This check airman described the FO’s piloting performance as among the worst he had ever seen and noted that the FO tended to have an excuse for each of his poor performances, such as blaming his simulator partner, his instructor, or the hotel. A third check airman at Mesa said that the FO had weak situational awareness, did not realize what was going on with the airplane at times, and had difficulty staying ahead of the airplane. She said the FO was completely unaware that he lacked skills, unwilling to accept feedback, and unhappy with her about his failure to upgrade to captain. An instructor who taught cockpit procedures on the flight training devices at Air Wisconsin Airlines recalled that during one emergency procedures training scenario, the FO made abrupt control inputs that triggered the stick shaker and overspeed alerts. The instructor said that instead of staying engaged in the scenario and addressing the problem with his training partner, the FO just stopped what he was doing and turned around and looked at the instructor. The instructor found this reaction highly unusual. Turns out Amazon didn't know about any of these failures, because here's your government in action (inaction): Ten years ago, Section 203 of the Airline Safety and Federal Aviation Administration Extension Act of 2010 mandated that the FAA create an electronic pilot records database (PRD), which was intended to improve the timeliness and efficiency of the PRIA records retrieval process by providing hiring operators and DAs with direct access to pilots’ FAA, NDR, and former employer records in a single database. By 2016, the FAA had not yet implemented the PRD, and Congress imposed an April 30, 2017, deadline, which the FAA also missed. Although the FAA has begun phasing in the use of the PRD, the PRD is not yet fully functional; it contains only pilots’ FAA records and is available to hiring operators for use on a voluntary basis.

dehrmann 6y ago
Mesa, like the airline American and United use as a regional carrier?
throwaway201103 6y ago
Also, the FO was black, and ticked the quota goals at his employers.

granzymes 6y ago

Amazon doesn't operate the planes it leases (and now, owns), as noted by the first sentence of that accident report.

onion2k 6y ago

She said that when the FO did not know what to do, he became extremely anxious and would start pushing a lot of buttons without thinking about what he was pushing, just to be doing something. You'd think that the simulator would be able to detect inappropriate button pushes in a given situation, and produce a report stating that it had happened more than <some threshold> times during an exercise. That should flag the pilot for further evaluation and training...

sidewndr46 6y ago
That isn't how aircraft simulators work. They simulate the aircraft, not the exact expected behavior. For example, if an electrical system warning presents itself the pilot might first turn off all in flight entertainment. This won't necessarily solve the problem, but the plane can fly fine without in flight entertainment.
- onion2k 6y ago
  They presumably record the behaviour of the person flying the simulator though during the simulated emergency (or any situation). What I'm suggesting is that a report is generated from recorded data to show that the pilot didn't do what was necessarily expected - turning off the in-flight entertainment is an example which might be judged an odd but innocuous action, but turning off the engines, or hammering 50 buttons in the space of a minute, or something, would indicate behaviour that is well outside of the expected parameters. That should be flagged. If the other flight crew in the simulator at the same time can tell that the pilot was behaving erratically then the simulator reporting software should be able to tell as well.