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This is really cool! Does anyone know why a similar project doesn't exist currently using the open source distribution of Apple's Darwin operating system? It h
by jd3 6y ago
This is really cool!
Does anyone know why a similar project doesn't exist currently using the open source distribution of Apple's Darwin operating system? It has always seemed strange to me that their open source BSD OS does not have an official distribution channel with a built in package manager like macports, pkg-src, gentoo prefix, etc.
OpenDarwin and PureDarwin existed for awhile, but seem to have both been abandoned now.
X11 (including thousands of open source and graphical x11 programs), plan9port, and other open source software projects already compile and run fine on macOS, so this has always seemed like something that _should_ be possible but has never gained traction due to what I guess is lack of documentation and Apple's lackluster open source website.
- boogies 6y agoThe world’s largest corporation is happy to accept gratis open source labor, but they’re rather actively antagonistic to Free/Libre software (eg. trying to eradicate strong copyleft from macOS, not only shipping ancient bash, etc. but prohibiting third parties from shipping it through the App Store without mandatory DRM). The lackluster support for open source distributions is virtually certainly intentional. The other BSDs are the closest you’ll get.
- wmf 6y agoDarwin isn't a good OS.
- jd3 6y agoFair point! I guess what I'm getting at is the fact that, even though Darwin isn't great, we know that it's building and running on all production M1 macs, can run X11, etc. which generally seems like what this project is attempting to do. I'm not a systems software engineer[0], so I'm not positive where the new drivers live for the M1 (are they in Darwin? proprietary/exclusive to macOS?), but if those drivers are available for use already (either legally through Darwin or through copying files from macOS into Darwin or something), it seems like it might make sense to look into making a Darwin distribution rather than reserve engineering the new M1 hardware in order to add some drivers and userland programs to what is essentially another Arch Linux distribution (from what I've read about Asahi thus far). I think the Asahi project definitely makes sense if the primary goal is to run Linux on M1 macs for its robust server/enterprise capabilities, but if the goal is to just have a dual-bootable open source desktop operating system, I feel like Darwin might actually be the easier choice here. [0]: http://doc.cat-v.org/bell_labs/utah2000/utah2000.pdf http://doc.cat-v.org/bell_labs/utah2000/utah2000.pdf
- wmf 6y agoI'm pretty sure people want Linux specifically, not any open-source OS. As for Darwin source code, I'm reminded of the saying that if an economist sees a $100 bill on the sidewalk he says "if it was real someone would have already picked it up".
- saagarjha 6y agoThe drivers are proprietary.
- mtrower 6y agoThis is actually a really good point; I tend to forget about Darwin. If I was in a situation where I owned Apple Silicon, I'd definitely want to look into this. While I have my own flavor preferences, I'm generally happy to work in whatever Unix environment is available to me. Thanks for bringing this up; it may become important to me in the future. But wmf is right; a critical mass of people want Linux and accept no substitutes. To a lot of people, especially younger folks, "Unix" means Linux, and that's that.
- astrange 6y agoDarwin for M1 is not open source currently I think.